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Yeah, cool. We'll do that. We'll start with that and then we will open up our session. 00:00:00
All right, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation 00:00:10
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:17
Awesome. Thank you. 00:00:25
OK, umm, that brings us to item 2, which is our open session for our public to come and comment with the, uh, if you could limit 00:00:29
yourself to three minutes and make sure it's not on anything that is on our agenda for the evening. 00:00:37
Yeah. 00:00:48
Yeah, I just wanted to introduce our, our two new planning commissioners, uh, for the public, uh, Nathaniel, umm. 00:00:57
And we have Cadence Roden. Roden, yeah, I like it. Uh, SO2UH-2 new plan commissioners. And if you guys just wanna say something 00:01:04
quick about yourself, kinda made a little bit back background to the public and get to get to know you a little bit, but. 00:01:11
Sure. Hi everyone My name is Nathan live here in vineyards and I'm very excited to be a part of the Planning Commission. I have a 00:01:20
background of over 10 years in uh, urban planning, uh, serving in several different cities as a staff member, umm, in various 00:01:27
communities across the country. Umm, and grateful now to DPRI now work in the private sector. And so I'm excited to continue doing 00:01:34
all of my urban planning stuff here serving the community that I. 00:01:41
So that it should be certain. 00:01:49
Cool. Umm put me on the spot, Morgan. I wasn't expecting this, but I'm excited to be here as well. I'm, Kayden wrote. And I've 00:01:53
lived here in Vineyard for three, just over three years. Uh, I've been involved with the city since I moved in. I was chair of the 00:02:00
bike Commission and had been involved in different capacities with the central parks plan and other, the active transportation 00:02:07
plan as well as the master transportation plan. So. 00:02:14
I love I don't have any formal degrees in urban planning, but I spend my free time reading books and watching YouTube videos about 00:02:22
urban planning and, uh, land use. So I'm excited to, to be here. So thank you. Thanks so much and welcome. 00:02:29
So sorry you go back to public comment, I'm glad. 00:02:40
Because it's good to get to know those commission's a little bit better. OK, so umm, especially open session public has any 00:02:44
comments? We would love to have a. 00:02:49
OK. And then say your name, neighborhood? 00:02:58
And diarrhea hasn't. 00:03:02
Happy new Year. Happy new Year. 00:03:05
This is the new year and umm, new opportunities and it looks like as I was reading through the new plan that's coming through, 00:03:08
looks like you'll have more authority with new head, with head of de department. And as you move forward, I hope that umm, you 00:03:15
will consider the needs of vineyards along with the wants of the developers that come in that you can come to a good consensus 00:03:23
that will benefit all of us. Thank you. 00:03:30
Hysteria. 00:03:39
Nicola I mean, yes, you're here. 00:03:42
Sorry for go. OK, so move on to UMM 3, which is business item. Umm, we'll go to. 00:03:47
Let's see, we need to open up a public hearing. Yeah, for item 3.1. 00:03:56
Yeah, you, you can open it now, umm, but then allow umm, that, that way someone asks a question. But I, I would let Anthony kinda 00:04:02
go through his presentation and umm, and then probably formally take public comment after that. OK, we'll plan on that. My 00:04:09
suggestion. Cool. Yeah, if we can have every prevent and then we will open up after that for public comment. And I'll just do a 00:04:16
really quick intro of that. Everyone knows Anthony Fletcher, our planner, umm, him and, uh, Rachel, umm. 00:04:23
Our UMM planner who is remote out of Las Vegas. 00:04:30
Really feel gel gently over the last several months, umm, the state code SB has sent a bill 174 has a lot of requirements for 00:04:33
subdivisions. Umm, you'll see that basically every year, umm, the, the, the state has mandates that we uh, essentially trunc, 00:04:41
truncate the process as much as possible to help deliver as as many houses as as you possibly can. There's still that huge umm 00:04:48
housing for as you think umm, this past year we're 30 to 40,000 UI units, uh, unit de deficit of. 00:04:56
Of where this stage is trying to be so that's that that that's every year that's, you know a good thing that we wanna get more 00:05:03
housing for people but umm, but also it it, it does have impact on on our process umm and so umm, Anthony is gonna take you 00:05:09
through that So Anthony and Rachel, they've done a really great job they've gone through our entire code they've done an audit 00:05:15
umm, of, of our subdivision ordinances and processes to make sure that we're in line and so why he's gonna be presenting tonight 00:05:21
are those amendments. 00:05:27
To be in line with SB174 plus there are some staff suggestions and he'll take you through those as well. Our thought was as we're 00:05:33
making these amendments, there are other changes we have that, that we'd like to see each those, uh, those ordinances as well. And 00:05:38
so, umm, without any further ado, actually take it away. 00:05:44
Thank you very much, Morgan. Hi, my name is Anthony Morgan and I will be taking you through the subdivision ordinance amendments. 00:05:52
So as Morgan already shared with you, we UMM, are doing this as a directive to be in line with what the state requires for us. And 00:06:02
also, uh staff has umm, taken the opportunity to claim, do a general cleanup of the uh, code that we have here in the city. So 00:06:11
this Senate Bill 174, UMM, has to be approved and passed. I mean approved and effective by February 1st of 2024. 00:06:21
And this only applies to, uh, one family to a family and townhome subdivisions. Umm, that is a requirement from the state. But as 00:06:31
part of the code clean up, we're hoping or making our recommendation of staff to have this process the same across board for all 00:06:37
applications. This will make it more, umm, seamless for us during applications and, uh, processes that we have to go through as 00:06:44
staff. 00:06:51
So, umm, this bill? 00:06:59
UMM freedom. I talked about the UMM processes, changes in process with the preliminary subdivision, final subdivision and Adu 00:07:02
parking requirements as well as landscaping bonds. 00:07:08
I know you may all be aware of umm how these are already know this, but this is just a fresh of course for lack of a better word. 00:07:18
So on the left is umm a preliminary plat and on the right I have a final plat. So the left side you you can tell that that 00:07:25
preliminary plat only shows the various parcels, the street network and pretty much giving you a general idea of what could happen 00:07:32
in that large parcel. 00:07:39
Land and the final is a piece off that prelim preliminary that has a lot more detail. So it shows more, uh, more details such as, 00:07:46
uh, set back, umm, more information about specific lots and, uh, Rd. names and many more. And, uh, $5 to anyone who can guess that 00:07:53
flat. One of the last, do you remember this? Probably kept paying up for, uh, for knives and knives. I think we only met on like 00:08:01
20 times. 00:08:08
So all this is from hold away, hold the way failed. Yeah alright, so, umm, as you know, in the development process, after you've 00:08:18
gone through the preliminary in the final, then move on to the site, uh, site plans, which there's more site specific and more 00:08:25
detailed goes all the way to elevations and giving you material certifications and more. So in this presentation I'll be using. 00:08:33
Subdivision and plat intertangibly so. 00:08:42
Just in case you don't get confused. So for the for the preliminary subdivision code amendment, we divided it into what umm the 00:08:45
code requires and what staff is recommending. So the the SB174 requires that. 00:08:54
All preliminary subdivisions or plan applications, uh do not have a pre application meeting as a full requirement. It's not 00:09:04
optional, so an applicant can decide to request for that. The approval body as well has changed from UH City Council to Planning 00:09:12
Commission and umm, also the state requirements. 00:09:20
The state requires that we have to limit, uh, several plans complete at 50%. We don't need a full complete. 00:09:30
Uh, plan for several plans for the preliminary level staff recommendations will be the engineering review cost. Umm, has, has been 00:09:37
taken out or will be taken out, uh, to kind of replace with the fee schedule. Umm, we had that because prior to having a full 00:09:46
time, uh, engineer on staff, we had to contract this out. So we have to put this piece in the code. 00:09:54
To make room for payment uh of the review engineering reviews, hard copies are no longer required. 00:10:03
Applications are gonna be online. 00:10:10
Umm, parcel addressing has to be by the city engineer. 00:10:13
And the preliminary utility plan and landscape plans are to be provided on the same sheet overlaid so we can tell what is where. 00:10:18
Then instead of that, in the past, we've had umm, a, a lot of issues where the applicant will have their civil engineers do a 00:10:26
design, umm, and then the landscape architect will do a design, but they'll talk to each other. And so when they actually put in 00:10:33
the, the infrastructure, you know, trees get taken out and all the land. 00:10:40
Changes, so it's got some pretty extreme cases, but I just thought it's one of those things where now we just wanna see it on one 00:10:48
plan. Those those two need to communicate. So anyway, hopefully this helps to that end. Thanks, Morgan. So, uh, we have also 00:10:55
recommended that umm, we I mean we include maintenance responsibilities for HOA to have a clear cut what the public works would be 00:11:03
in charge of and what your HOA would be in charge of when it comes to things like. 00:11:10
Going and all that, umm, the title report components have also been added In the past, we've had applicants confused title reports 00:11:18
with umm, title insurance because they look alike. But uh, the second things that we look out for that we want to make it easier 00:11:25
for applicants to identify and submit with the final subdivision code amendment, we have the approval body being, uh, changed from 00:11:31
City Council to. 00:11:38
The Development Review Committee DRC UMM. 00:11:45
He would not also allow concurrent applications, UMM and side plan. I mean concept plans are now optional but we do recommend that 00:11:50
staff to. We strongly recommend our staff to include that in your application and application review should also take place within 00:11:58
20 business days. As staff we have also recommended that UMM after a final plan has been approved. 00:12:07
Uh, we allow for two years. It used to be one year before it would be required to be re recorded, but we're umm, requesting that 00:12:16
that is changed to two years. 00:12:20
So, umm, on the approval body for the final subdivision, uh, we have decided to to go based on the code, go with a more technical 00:12:28
approval body as a land use authority. That's why it's the DRC. Now the DRC, if this is approved, would be would the meetings will 00:12:36
become more public, will be public and would have posted a posted agendas and minutes. 00:12:45
And would have voted members be a chair of the Planning Commission, the city manager, the. 00:12:54
Redevelopment of the RDA Director umm the the heads of departments for building, engineering, community development and parks and 00:13:01
Recs. 00:13:06
So these are, I can imagine, so right now how DRC is worked out, it's a, uh, it's more of like an advisory body and it also 00:13:14
provides assistance to applicants. S criminal command will provide comments and they'll come to VRC. DRC members will, umm, will 00:13:21
help answer questions. We'll explain comments. Umm, and so a lot of like a member of the fire department there as well. And so 00:13:29
it's right now it's, it's, it's more of a kind of an informal value that just helps with the applicants. 00:13:36
Through that, that process and then addressed comments and to understand kind of the objectives of the code. Umm, what we would do 00:13:43
though, is when we get a final plat, that's when we, we would sit up here for that medium. It would be a formal decision. Umm, but 00:13:49
if there's not a final flat, it'll still be like just an informal body where we just can't be with applicants. But in, in the 00:13:55
event that we have a final plan, that's where it'd be a formal not meeting. 00:14:01
So that final class, is there a requirement they recorded before they sell any loss in a private area or to make sure you're 00:14:08
selling lost before you have money? Yeah. 00:14:14
Here, you know, they don't report it and I have a problem with that, which is for uh, because it wasn't recorded, but it was sold 00:14:51
and it was legal and then it was never recorded. You run into issues. Umm, so if we say that it's a boy, but they've already pre 00:14:58
sold a lot in there or somebody thinks that they have that good right and they spoke lost, but it's not yeah ma'am. Maybe the pre 00:15:06
sale is more just putting them in a line to do the official sale where they'll they'll obtain title umm. 00:15:13
Yeah. So a a real estate sale can't be finalized and recorded unless it's tied to an APN and usually it's not, well it's not 00:15:20
usually at the recording of the plat is when the Apns are assigned and the test or parcel number is assigned. And so any sale that 00:15:27
happens prior to an accessible parcel number being assigned to this new. 00:15:34
Subdivided lot or this plat that's getting umm, all recorded. Any cell that happens there is void because it's not technically 00:15:42
tied to any legal property. And so, umm, I kind of echo your question. I don't know, sheriff. It's best to kind of as Anthony 00:15:48
going to ask questions or just save our questions until at the end of the presentation. It's whatever you prefer. Umm, I was also 00:15:55
asking about. 00:16:01
Why the two years rather than the one year? Because that does open the doors, in my opinion, for. 00:16:08
Challenges and problems to arise. 00:16:15
Umm, so we allowed for the two years to give developers or applicants more time to get their ducks in the row because it takes 00:16:19
understanding based on previous applications, uh, has been that it takes a lot more time for them to get, umm, everything ready 00:16:25
and going for building to start. So. 00:16:31
Right, but it's to record. Is there a requirement that means construction has to commence immediately after recording? 00:16:39
Umm, I think I need some help at this point. 00:16:49
No, I'm assuming there are some engineer. 00:16:57
Umm, so the way with the plat, the way platforms and construction is as a developer gets preliminary slots and, uh, is wishing to 00:17:00
proceed with construction, uh, they would be required to do a performance fund which is at 110% of the, uh, cost construction, uh, 00:17:08
review that created by myself and, uh, Patrick, uh, as well and. 00:17:16
It's uh, uh, which would guarantee the, you know, the completion of the law. 00:17:25
Completion prior to our official clapping. 00:17:31
That, uh, in regards to, uh, receiving, uh, certificate of occupancy for uh, last thing so far to a official final class be done, 00:17:34
uh. 00:17:39
That would, uh, I, I believe that without the, uh, different routes by the, umm, by the state too. So those will not be able to 00:17:46
sell a lot until the final path is done officially reported. So it really comes down to is, is so recording the plat and not 00:17:52
really just comes down to, uh, the, uh, the type of bond that the developer would replace the city, but there's plenty of 00:17:59
developers out there that will get the lots ready. 00:18:05
And then we'll sell to various home builders. And so my question is, is there any timeline, I'm not aware of any state where 00:18:12
there's a timeline of after you have recorded a plat you have to commence. And in terms of if my thoughts recorded and this is 00:18:19
part of the part of the potentially the design. So after class reporting, there's no requirement in terms of starting 00:18:26
construction. I used to be in the private development business. 00:18:33
Many, many years ago. 00:18:40
But we would have zoning approvals and so forth, we record the plots and there was, there was, uh, the plot would be recorded with 00:18:42
a loss and we would make the determination of whatever, uh, to develop or sell the whole entire thing. So proportions of it. Uh, 00:18:49
however, what, uh, for our engineering side and the time requirement comes down to even after customer record, before their, uh, 00:18:56
before they were billed, they would have to submit 100% complete design. So for example, someone, uh. 00:19:03
Submit the uh, record the files and then five years later decide to, uh, develop it. 00:19:12
They would need to meet the construction standards at the time that they submit, uh, prior to developing, at the time that they 00:19:20
submit the, the construction permit to, to actually build. So they would have to, which should not affect, uh, per SE, the, uh, 00:19:27
the private itself would really come down to the carriage of retailers, etcetera. Umm, but there was in essence, they would be 00:19:34
entitled to, umm, any other type of development standards. For example, Broadway was, uh, of the file at that at that time. 00:19:42
So there's no set standard of when someone has to, uh, build after some files. Umm, again, I haven't been the private sector. Uh, 00:19:50
we've had, we've had, uh, developers pilot and sat there for four or five years because of their economy, because we cannot afford 00:19:57
to actually develop it. And then this, this is referring to with a final plan is approved by, by the city to win again, gets 00:20:05
reported so that it's not like it's a destruction piece of it. Uh, so yeah, like this is so. 00:20:12
It'll just allow for, for that to be, uh, to be recorded with accounting after it's been approved by the city and reported with 00:20:19
accounting. Uh, it's gonna correct me if I'm wrong, but the, the ball is in the city's hands in order to get recorded, uh, not 00:20:25
pursuing the developer correct? Because, uh, after it's improved with my large honest, everything gets signed and there's no, 00:20:31
there's no changes to the class yeah. Typically your final pack is recorded and then, umm, I think that's when you guys are 00:20:37
finishing up your technical re review. Umm. 00:20:43
Umm, and then it's, it's the, it's the, the distinguished process, any of those. 00:20:50
Yeah, the only difference I got, and I'll use everything example, uh, from when they were in five days approved to, uh, there 00:20:56
might be some changes. Uh, again, uh, Patrick and I, we recently, uh, we have one where all the changes were, were administrative 00:21:02
changes. For example, uh, the, uh, address thing, uh, was, was wrong. Like those San Jose area where the addressing was, uh, was 00:21:08
backwards in essence, like it was going to reverse order that the county wanted to be instead of taking over or there was a, a 00:21:14
street that's, uh. 00:21:20
With continuous St. it has a name on it, but the county stated that they have to have two separate names for that, you know, so 00:21:27
everything was Amit, all the changes that were not occurred with the class was all done administratively, wasn't there uh, wasn't 00:21:32
any changes to the law sizes, wasn't changes to any alignment. OK. 00:21:37
Umm, we can probably have this discussion later to get more. I don't wanna hike out your, uh, presentation anymore unless other 00:21:43
members of the board or Commission have wanted to talk about it further. 00:21:48
OK. Thank you. 00:21:57
So. 00:22:02
These, so these are the additional umm code changes by being recommended by SB174, UMM, the accessory dwelling unit, parking 00:22:05
minimums for accessory dwelling units UMM would be changed from 5:00 to 4:00 and it's it's a state requirement now. 00:22:14
Umm, we, we no longer require landscaping bonds to give, uh, so the states, uh, occupancy. 00:22:24
So the only way we can ensure that landscaping is done or all these improvements are done would be, uh, would have to be through 00:22:33
our code enforcement. 00:22:38
So it's just a parietal of what I'll need stuff to. So the first one, if you remember, I think a couple of years ago, AKA you, you 00:22:46
were on the Commission at that time. But we umm. 00:22:51
The so the the state with Adus is not on 1000 things to keep kind of reducing the requirements of citizens having ideas. Umm, we 00:22:56
were able to require one additional space right now single family hills require 4 parking on site parking spaces. So that allowed 00:23:03
us to require a 5th for umm, a house with an Adu. Umm, they've now come back and they've said no if you require for you can only 00:23:11
require 4 for single family, even if it's a single family with an Adu. And so when we had our work session with the UMM with the. 00:23:18
Council, they umm there there was some interest in internal work on the state level and the new legislative session and possibly 00:23:26
see if they can get that back because in a city like when you're not actually gonna have a pretty big impact, umm, you know, so I 00:23:32
don't, we don't necessarily know how expensive, but, uh, right now we're only allowed to just force you to make that amendment. 00:23:38
Hopefully we can bump that back up, umm to, to five. And then the other landscaping bonds. Umm, that's uh yeah. So when I take 00:23:44
like an office building for. 00:23:50
Throughout the billing is constructed, they haven't installed their landscaping. We will no longer be able to hold out their certi 00:23:56
certificate of occupancy, umm, based off the landscaping and like require bonds that that's how we do it now. Umm, if they don't 00:24:02
install it umm and so we just have to let them have their certificate of option occupancy and they work through code enforcement 00:24:08
and say you're in violation to the landscaping orders. So. 00:24:14
It might take a little bit more work on on the back end, but that's that's how it's set up right now. 00:24:21
So this table shows the designated approval board that we have in the city. City Council will remain umm as the approval body for 00:24:29
general plan master plans as well as rezoning, text amendments and uh, development agreements. Now with the preliminary plat as a 00:24:37
recap, has changed from City Council to Planning Commission. 00:24:45
And with the final plots as well, I have changed from City Council to the DRC. Garden permits and umm building Building permits 00:24:54
will still remain the same building stuff. 00:25:00
So next steps, umm, today we're having this public hearing generally, uh, 17th next week we will be having, uh, the City Council 1 00:25:09
and. 00:25:15
Hopefully it will be passed, our decision will be made. 00:25:21
So the proposed motion. 00:25:28
Umm for this? 00:25:30
Umm code amendment Proposed code amendment would be that you proposed to forward positive recommendation to the City Council for 00:25:34
Ordinance 202412 and three as presented by staff. 00:25:42
Thank you and please let me know, let us know if you have any other questions and if, if I understand one more point. Just uh, and 00:25:55
I know, uh, Anthony covers so this will that, that. So the state code only requires this process for one and two family dwellings. 00:26:02
That'd be single family home and then duplexes and townhomes. What staff is proposing is that all subdivision class follow the 00:26:09
same process. We, that's how they are now. They all follow the same process it. 00:26:16
Some administrative standpoint, umm, not much easier. Umm, and for the development community provides umm a lot more pro 00:26:23
predictability as far as process goes. And so that would be our re recommendation is that we keep those the same. But uh, you 00:26:29
don't have to make that recommendation. We just wanna be very clear that you can still have multi family umm, and commercial 00:26:35
subdivisions go through the existing process with the City Council umm, but we would recommend that they all follow the same umm 00:26:41
proposed. 00:26:47
So that's how they're written up. So if you wanna change that, you'd have to make it clear in the in the motion if you, if you 00:26:53
don't wanna do that. 00:26:57
Bring that clear. Thank you. I, I have a question on the changes because I mentioned the fee schedule in that right of, of how 00:27:01
that, uh, the plat review or engineering review is done and it's going from the, the requester pays all the fees. So now it's a, a 00:27:09
standard fee schedule. Is that right? So what's the, what's the impact of that? How does that actually change things? Is it just 00:27:16
everybody pays the same set fee regardless of the type of plat, single family, multi family. So am I, am I correct in like? 00:27:24
So we, we just follow our, our fee schedule now, umm, what? And so we, we do that anyway. We, we, we can't require fees that 00:27:32
don't, uh, that, that are above and beyond what the actual review process is that, that was kind of a more archaic, uh, provision 00:27:37
that was in there. We used to have, uh, we used JV engineering for a really long time and, umm, and using a consultant to your 00:27:43
views is quite expensive. And so that's, that's where it would allow us to assess these in a, in addition just to a straight 00:27:49
application fee so that we can cover. 00:27:55
Consultants fees, umm, correct if I'm wrong, I'm saying, but we're pretty much on the same page like, like they like right. We, we 00:28:01
just have well follow the same fee schedule now as opposed to discussing separately. Yeah, correct. Uh, so, umm, for example, the 00:28:09
technical review on the engineering review up to so many pages and so which again, umm, Patrick and I, umm, uh, it was in, it was 00:28:16
in to our discussions and uh, Patrick, uh, recently. 00:28:24
In the five seconds in the civil designs as well, umm, you know, those were a good obtainable and that was a, you know, a fair 00:28:31
number. And then to also include like the, the amount of time that we we typically put in there, There is a, there is a cap on it 00:28:37
down. Umm, you know, 3 reviews, uh, on the, uh, type. So, uh, this way, when we get specifically, we look at the some designs and 00:28:43
umm. 00:28:49
Uh, designs and keep, uh, trying to keep up with those fees that we would have to, uh, assess, uh, the developer beforehand. Like 00:28:58
trying to say, OK, well, this is what's gonna cost. If you scheduled it wasn't, uh, cognizant to what the designs available to use 00:29:04
were actually. So we would do like, it would be like 10-15, uh, guys are gonna have those numbers reviews. This actually put like 00:29:10
again, uh, number. So this way we provide that the, the, uh, insurance to developers. 00:29:16
And, uh, a, uh, a, a cap of how many times we would, we would do a review, uh, before. 00:29:24
Beforehand, umm, and, and then also kind of on the backside, uh, requesting that, uh, on the primary class side, uh, things were 00:29:30
they don't have to submit complete, complete design upfront that, uh, you know, the design we come at the technical review portion 00:29:36
with our, when they're ready to actually start, uh, doing the construction development, umm, uh, so that's kind of, uh, providing 00:29:42
that type of balance of that. And then there's other, there's, uh, we've contacted that with other fees and it's also consistent 00:29:48
across the board. 00:29:54
Uh, in terms of, uh, uh, in terms of the fees to ensure that we're providing Sr. but if there are balanced, consistent, uh, uh, 00:30:00
scheduling, we do have a provision, umm, that for, uh, specialized reviews. Like for example, if you have to do a hydraulic 00:30:07
modeling, uh, for some developer, developer, uh, that we would charge, uh, the cost over the consultant would charge, We have a, 00:30:15
uh, hydraulic modeling consultant, umm. 00:30:22
Where it would be their cost plus 10%. So we do have, I guess what if scenario if we have to go out to a third party to, to 00:30:30
provide a specialized and, uh, like unbiased, uh, review something as well. So, so, and I guess my, my concern would just be 00:30:36
making sure it's scalable. It's like somebody building a single family home usually, I would assume would have lower fees than 00:30:42
somebody building something much bigger and correct. And so Latino family home would be, uh, resolved underneath, uh, land 00:30:48
develop. 00:30:54
So we would have like a line development permit, uh, it was following any thoughts? And there's a line development permit for a 00:31:00
certain size, like under 50 or even a half acre and above and above, uh, and above 1/2 acre. So there's someone who buys a lot and 00:31:07
is going to, uh, and umm, you know, show the builder is going to come and build that one thing. They're not paying like almost 00:31:14
$3000 fee for a more simplistic review of. 00:31:21
Like what, 5 or 7 pages? 00:31:29
It's a land of land of service permit at a much lower rate and that's usually based on the size of the lots and disturbance of the 00:31:31
lot. And and also the flooding process does have included, uh, prices per lot. So, you know, one lot subdivision is, is a 00:31:38
different price than, you know, a A20 lot final plat, no. 00:31:44
Thank you. 00:31:51
You're good to, if you want to buy, is it OK if I just tell you a question before? OK, thanks. So, umm, the first, I just want to 00:31:59
say thank you, Anthony. I know this was a lot of work, not just to prepare the presentation, but to write all of this ordinance 00:32:05
stuff. So thank you. Umm, a lot of states right now are issuing a lot of these different state bills regarding housing, trying to 00:32:11
just sweep along as quick as possible. 00:32:17
Some are so incredibly extreme. Umm, I'm grateful that this Utah one at least gives us enough local control so that we can still 00:32:23
have at least some kind of design review and architectural review beforehand. Umm. So with that being said, there are a couple 00:32:31
questions that I have. I did e-mail Anthony before just a few clarifying questions. He did answer all of them, umm, and I was 00:32:38
satisfied with them. There's just two items that I wanted to raise, uh, for just a matter of discussion with all of us to see if. 00:32:46
On the same page with it, umm, the first one, I'm still not totally satisfied with the moving the time period to record a platform 00:32:53
one year to two years. Umm, And that might just be another discussion with staff to fully better understand why that was needed. 00:33:01
If it's a matter of making your job easier so that things can be done more properly. Totally supported. I wanna do whatever would 00:33:08
make your job easier. I just wanna get a better understanding as to the why. Umm, the second one was, I understood that it was. 00:33:16
What the state law required, we kind of have to do it, the requirement of the state regarding the landscape standards and 00:33:24
landscape improvements. Umm, before we were able to say that when, before you can get ACFO, a certificate of occupancy or before 00:33:31
we release any bonds, uh, you have to make sure your landscape is put in. You said you put trees on the plan. Where are the trees? 00:33:38
Unfortunately, now state laws like don't hold up the houses for that. Let them put it in without any trees. 00:33:45
That stinks. I we hate that. So what I asked Anthony and he said that would just be addressed by code enforcement. So I just want 00:33:53
to make sure. 00:33:57
And then we provide a time frame on that. And then if not, then we start going through that process. Perfect. And now rather than 00:35:01
that being a violation of the building code, it would just be a violation of other design standards of our community. So yeah. 00:35:08
Yeah. In violation of their site plan, but excellent. Mm-hmm. OK. Umm. And then the other items that I just wanna do before we 00:35:15
entertain motion is, umm, uh. 00:35:22
There's been a couple times in the ordinance where it refers to the RDA director. I would just say spell it out as the 00:35:29
redevelopment agency. Just, uh, that would be my only item. I get you actually do that, OK. 00:35:34
And that that and that's why you don't need to put that. We didn't need to do that. 00:35:41
OK. 00:35:45
OK, any more questions then I didn't have any of this topic. Is that is that is it do do we have like the at least code? Yes, I 00:35:49
mean really have it in the code, but I've noted that it would have that corrected. OK, thank you. 00:35:57
Cool. Nice to have processed. Thank you. 00:36:05
Yeah, and, and as far as the the the one to two years umm, from from from from the staff level, I think it just provides umm more 00:36:11
time and that kinda helps out with the overall process. I don't know if that's like a a deal killer or anything like that. If 00:36:18
that's, you know, the the the the one to two year umm is it is that to assist and provide the time for like your their technical 00:36:25
review and forgetting like the utilities and that kind of stuff like I guess from from a process wise you guys have. 00:36:32
That concern. 00:36:39
I think the timeline. 00:36:42
Was. 00:36:49
13 is my voice. 00:36:54
Yeah, I think it, I think it was to help with the technical review process or or the the the review process and getting that 00:36:58
recorded. 00:37:02
Any time it matters so that the process didn't have to be, uh, restarted, but we can certainly look at that more, uh, this is 00:37:08
really not working here. 00:37:13
Maybe before, umm, City Council, I, I, I guess you have examples of where, you know, like the one year was, was, was pushing 00:37:19
people out out of compliance with the current standards. Umm, I don't know if you guys have any examples of that or anything like 00:37:26
that. Yeah, I do. So, uh, hold the way children recently, uh, finally got their, their final plat recorded and it was like 51 00:37:34
weeks or something like that from their approval date that we bought it to the county. Just there were a lot of things. 00:37:41
Tested the interaction with the other agencies involved in order to get it done. 00:38:16
Sometimes there's delays and so adding that extra buffer just to make sure it's not a waste of taxpayer dollars to go through the 00:38:20
whole process all over again that that answers all of my questions. Well, one thing you could do and if you're fine with house, 00:38:27
right, that's that's cool. But like if you could have them request like a six month ex extension instead of having to go through a 00:38:34
process. So we have another city where where we've allowed them to come to the Planning Commission and make make a request. 00:38:41
Umm, so if and then they they could provide you those reasons and. 00:38:48
You know that it may be monitors to get 18 months and they can make another request. I mean, that's there there, there's a way of 00:38:52
kind of getting to the same, umm, goal. 00:38:57
Sure. And I don't know if it matters if, if there's some kind of transaction, uh, between whoever applied for and went through the 00:39:01
process of the original plat and then the new owners want to do something different. You can always amend 5I mean as the property 00:39:07
owner, you have the right to what you want to do on your own property. And so now with that clarification, any concerts I have are 00:39:12
gone. Thanks. 00:39:17
So, umm it would be good umm prior to some more Planning Commission discussions, I have the umm allow the public to get up and 00:39:25
then we can we can discuss any of their umm questions or concerns. OK, and public hearing we move and vote OK. 00:39:33
Who, uh, would you like to get a movement for public hearing? 00:39:43
Well, I I move to open the public hearing and the second. 00:39:49
One second. OK, Sir. All right, all right, all right. Thank you. All right, Public, you have whoever would like to come and speak 00:39:53
to this. You have 3 minutes. Please state your name and your neighborhood that needs your address. Yeah. Cornelius resident, umm, 00:40:00
I just wanted to lend my perspective for the 25 year general building contractor in California, both on residential and commercial 00:40:06
properties. 00:40:12
Interacted definitely with both of those. 00:40:18
Entities, if you want to call it that, in some discussion of the City Council meeting last week. 00:40:23
Talked with the two or three of the council members. 00:40:28
They are not yay or nay right now on the streamlining of the process between commercial, industrial and residential as far as the 00:40:32
approval process goes. 00:40:37
I know from my personal experience the the commercial side of things is intimately, more intimately, that's not the right word, 00:40:43
significantly more involved in the residential societies. And so my suggestion would be in your approving this tonight. And I 00:40:50
think there's some wisdom the state didn't mandate that those go together and be streamlined in the same process. I think another 00:40:57
set of eyes on it in the process, whether it's before the DRCI, don't think you put it after the DRC, but let the DRC. 00:41:05
The proven body, but one more set of eyes with the City Council. 00:41:13
Just gives you that maybe a little bit more assurance if you've covered all the bases, there's nothing lingering out there that 00:41:19
somebody missed, but we need to make sure we're just accounting for. So I just make that recommendation that maybe, maybe talk it 00:41:25
through, have them talk it through, do something to make sure that you know which way you want to go. But I would suggest if you 00:41:30
don't link the two together and make it a continuous process. 00:41:35
Sorry, it wasn't resident. Thank you. Umm, I just have a couple of questions. When you were talking about the landscaping, is that 00:41:51
retroactive to development that are in the process like I'm thinking Utah City or Holdaway Field? 00:42:00
Will they not have to put their landscaping in now before they issue certificates of occupancy? 00:42:09
Yes, you're correct. It it, yeah, as soon as it's approved it it it'd be in fact with, with with anything. 00:42:15
So. 00:42:22
All that is a disappointment. Oh. 00:42:25
Oh, that's just really that's really bad. OK, going on, I have I found some typographical errors. I don't know if it's important. 00:42:29
OK, but in 14.04 point 010. 00:42:37
You should change the word and to a where it says planner and engineer on a formal basis instead of fan formal, because that's 00:42:47
not. 00:42:52
Correct English and then also I also noticed on umm. 00:42:58
14.06 point 020, it has city engineer and you've been striking the word city, so I don't know if that needs to be striked again 00:43:03
too. 00:43:09
And then I have one more question. There's a lot of red lining and, uh, under the geotechnical report. 00:43:16
You know, vineyard is prone to liquefaction. You know, that's just the way the soil works here, Uh, thanks to Lake Bonneville. 00:43:24
But, umm, redlining? All about the grading and drainage plan. Why is that all struck out? 00:43:31
Umm, a Anthony can you can can can you ask that one? I, I know we talked about that umm, before I I think that was captured so 00:43:41
somewhere else. 00:43:45
I can talk to you that's under the preliminary plat umm, or preliminary subdivision. Umm, so, so I, we, we, we kept in as a 00:43:51
geotechnical report for a preliminary geotechnical report for the preliminary subdivision code. Umm, and, and so that will 00:43:58
capture. 00:44:04
Uh, just general hazards for the site? Umm. 00:44:11
Uh, and so, so there's, so that is going there. Umm, or part of it is OK. I just, I guess I just couldn't find it, but OK. And 00:44:17
then we also do geotext with the, for the billing experts at each specific site, right? Umm, So as far as the billing committee 00:44:24
will review those and I know there is a minimum standard that they need to follow. 00:44:32
Could we possibly raise that standard so that these people will build better for our community in case, you know, something 00:44:40
happens, you know, we don't know when, or I mean yes, when it will happen. So we should try to build a better standard for all of 00:44:48
our communities because. 00:44:56
Things happen. Yeah. We, we can bring that question to Chris Johnson. Our, our, our building official. Umm, I think maybe wanna 00:45:05
take a note of that. We can, umm, still help you as a City Council. We could have them, umm, you know, address that in addition to 00:45:11
the billing code we can require. OK, OK. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. 00:45:16
I'm sorry I didn't miss you. Uh, for the worst character, uh, just to kind of clarify that one last question, uh. 00:45:24
Any time changes in regards to build that I like to standards of building designs for. 00:45:32
Make it, uh, stronger and so forth. And that would be specifically to the building code and would be outside just like this 00:45:36
update. So it would, so even if this update goes, uh, goes through and, uh, if the city chooses what they would like to do 00:45:43
something else, uh, pertaining to that last point, it would be, it would have to go through a building code, uh, update. And of 00:45:50
course, uh, Chris Johnson can see specifically about, say, law requirements and so forth on that. 00:45:57
OK. Just wanted to make sure you're correct. Thank you. 00:46:05
Karen Cornelius, Senior Resident Umm, so my understanding after regarding this question is that this does pretend to utensiti as 00:46:10
well, this change and. And that's that. Yeah. For the landscape, it covers the whole city. So will landscaping now become the 00:46:17
responsibility of the homeowner or will it continue to be the development's responsibility? Can I speak to that real quick? Sure. 00:46:24
Yeah. So. 00:46:31
Ultimately what's happening, and that's why I asked for the clarification before. It used to be, I will not give you the piece of 00:46:38
paper that says you can occupy this building, unlike you put in all the trees you said you're gonna put in. State law has now 00:46:45
said, well, you can't do that or it used to be you have to put in a bond that that's ultimately holding money in collateral and 00:46:51
we're not gonna give you that back unless you put in all the trees you say we're gonna put it. State law has taken that away. 00:46:58
But ultimately, all that's done, it says now you can't use this hammer now we'll have to use this hammer instead. 00:47:05
We're still gonna have a hammer, only now it's gonna be done through code enforcement rather than through the building official. 00:47:12
So if the trees aren't put in, code enforcement calls them up and says you gotta put the trees in. And so that's ultimately what 00:47:18
it has to do. And that will be, and code enforcement is taken upon whoever is the property owner at that time when the code 00:47:25
enforcement infraction occurs. So then it could come to the home. 00:47:32
When that infraction occurs, so if they build the home and get a certificate of occupancy. 00:47:40
And the tree isn't there. They'll probably call in the developer because the developer is still the property owner or the home 00:47:45
builder is still the property owner at the time the CFO is issued. OK, well, code enforcement is one of my concerns because when 00:47:52
we talked about the 80 year parking and there being 5 required now, what is the enforcement on that? So there's umm, or so it 00:47:59
actually reduces it from 5:00 to 5:00. I understand that. 00:48:06
But who is enforcing the five at this point that they So what they do is they get a 80 permit. Umm, and so they, I understand all 00:48:13
that, but who is enforcing it? So, so before we give the so just let me, let me explain. So just before we give them a permit, 00:48:20
they have to demonstrate on their site that they have five part parking spaces. 00:48:26
Even the ones that you know have two car driveways, have street parking in front of their house is out of control because of the 00:49:03
Adu units. And so my question is if we're going to look at enforcement for our landscaping, I understand the enforcement is taking 00:49:10
place at the time of permitting, but then once that is permitted, what happens to that enforcement? So I, I don't and then this 00:49:17
may not be the body to answer that question, no. 00:49:24
These are really great, great, uh, questions, Karen. So what, what we do right now, umm, is we can enforce things if we can show 00:49:32
that they're, they're violating rule. Umm, now our, our code doesn't necessarily like say if you're a tenant of this Adu, you have 00:49:40
to park in that specific. So, umm, they do have to provide us on site. Umm, but if that specific St. umm, allows for on street 00:49:47
parking, then that person can park on the street. We, you know, if, if, if it's a just a public road and there's no restriction. 00:49:55
So basically it's just a formality then for them to show you that they have those places, but nobody's going to insist that they 00:50:33
use them. Yeah, right now, we, we can only enforce like a rule that that we have and we don't, we don't say you can't park on 00:50:38
streets unless it's been specifically designated. OK. OK. Thank you. Yeah, I understand your frustration. I, I think it's shared 00:50:44
by many, so. 00:50:50
All right, David Lorraine, President. 00:51:04
Umm thank you very much for your work. 00:51:09
Planning Commission, I appreciate it very much. I appreciate the, uh, you know, the questioning is much better this time than I've 00:51:13
seen in many changes as I requested. So thank you very much for your, your work and looking at it ahead of time and, and, and, uh, 00:51:20
and asking for your questions. Umm, I have a couple of concerns. Umm, first of all, umm, I, I likewise share the concern about 00:51:26
extending the recording of, of, uh, of the two years, uh, just on a broad basis. 00:51:33
I, I really would encourage you to look at the idea of a year plus, uh, the ability to request a four or six month extension or 00:51:40
something like that. 00:51:44
That was make it workable. We don't want to, you know, we don't want to unduly stress people, but at the same time we also want to 00:51:49
avoid situations that would, uh, entangle and would cause any undue legal entanglements when it comes to property problems, 00:51:54
though. 00:51:59
So I'm just thinking that might be the way to go with that. 00:52:05
Umm, have you parking? Umm, obviously we're all, we were bummed when they told us we couldn't have 6 spaces, only have 5. So we're 00:52:08
doubly bummed now. Umm. I'm wondering, is there any restriction on the size, uh, size requirement for those parking spaces? 00:52:17
Could any of them be extra wide perhaps? 00:52:26
I mean have you seen that Yeah. So have you seen the square footage of the plot here? Yes, I have. I, I mean I put in two parking 00:52:30
places of life, but I'm wrong. I believe it's an 8 foot width by umm, by 18 feet in length and that's what currently is now. I was 00:52:38
wondering do they have to do that the, the state requires that or is that that's our that's that's our code that that yeah 4480 00:52:45
users for like in the driveway. I know I had to build two of them yeah so, uh, anyway. 00:52:53
So the question is, could we modify that code so it's squired? 00:53:01
You then why is it that you wanna have like a zoning type type reason? Well, it seems to me that if we can investigate that, that 00:53:36
might be helpful. Something that will at least take the, you know, sort of blunt that a little bit. And, uh, so we really have we 00:53:42
honestly have the parking We said we have. 00:53:47
Uh, and the last thing I want to talk about is, umm, I'm no concerned about the, uh, the DRC is the final arbiter of, uh, of some 00:53:53
of these plans and so forth. Umm. 00:53:59
In the past, it's in the City Council and you know, and all five members are, have been residents and newly elected and so forth. 00:54:06
Uh, we now have, uh, it's now one resident to six staff. If I did my math right, if I looked at, you know, the PRC makeup, umm, so 00:54:12
because you have your Planning Commission chair would be on there and the rest of staff and, and I think you guys are great. Tell 00:54:19
me, where else could snap the RDA board, the RDA director? 00:54:25
The redevelopment. Redevelopment agencies direct. Yes. Is that the mayor? Am I misunderstanding? No, that's the chair. Oh, that's 00:54:35
the chair. Sure. OK. 00:54:39
OK, so yeah, that's so, yeah. So that that's the reason. That's why anyway. And I've umm and also umm. 00:54:43
The staff are pretty beholden to the mayor, you know, she points. No. 00:54:50
OK, that's fast, but it's fast. Well, you also, I mean, that's true. Uh, uh, so, uh, but no, no, the marriage hires them. It just 00:54:55
doesn't point that she hires the staff. She appoints you guys. Yeah, yeah, that's the difference. Yeah. Thanks. So anyway, but the 00:55:02
long and short of it is I like just to I, I think I would like to keep as many residents, you know, all in the process as 00:55:09
possible. And so if, if it may be better for the Planning Commission to be the, you know. 00:55:17
Best, uh, you know, the, the proving body in that situation. Nothing wrong with the VRC looking at things and looking at and, and, 00:55:24
and maybe the step before that. I think the final approval ought to come back to the Planning Commission. Yeah, that's very 00:55:30
common. Anthony, do you want to, uh, provide some clarification as to the state code? 00:55:36
All right. So your question just to clarify, if you want to make you want to know if we can change it from DRC to a Planning 00:55:47
Commission, the DRC can stay on the chain, but the Planning Commission be the final approving body? 00:55:54
OK, so yeah, we have our we, we have our other planner, obviously the one who helped happy about this. Umm, state code is saying 00:56:02
the final plat for the one to umm, family units and townhomes. Umm, the final plat cannot be approved by the Planning Commission 00:56:10
or City Council. Oh, Planning Commission or City Council? Yeah. And so is that preliminary plat can be approved by the Planning 00:56:17
Commission, but not by the City Council. We'll have to go. So yeah, OK, that sounds better. So. 00:56:24
If I may, if I can, sure. Yeah. Umm, I have been doing planning stuff with different States and there was another state I worked 00:56:31
on that is rest of us and left of us that has very, very aggressive, uh, housing laws that even took it any kind of building 00:56:39
permit away from any kind of public body. What I think is a win from here, even though final plat can't be from public bodies like 00:56:46
this. 00:56:54
The preliminary plat can, and that's the 50% of the plan. That first 50% is when you get probably the best idea of what that 00:57:02
neighborhood or subdivision is gonna look like. That last 50% is ultimately the sausage. You know, that's your really intense 00:57:09
details that most of us are not equipped to answer. That's when you need people with engineering licenses to really dive into 00:57:16
that, to make sure it's meeting not just city codes but building. 00:57:24
And buyer codes and all of those items that first 50% which is covered in the preliminary plat will be during public hearings, 00:57:32
will be in during these public settings. And that's when you're gonna be getting things like how tall is the building, how many 00:57:38
parking spaces are there? What's this gonna look like? So I would take that as a win that we can still at least retain the 00:57:44
preliminary flat approvals in these public hearings because I think that's what. 00:57:50
That first 50% is what I believe 99% of the community is really gonna care about. 00:57:57
Oh, I'm sorry. And just to clarify that that's a great point, but I'm not seeing the state code code. So we can't have public 00:58:02
hearings attached to any, any planning process on the planning future side. So you can. OK. Thank you. Yeah, right. So 00:58:07
unfortunately even that even that that piece was removed, but it can be an action item in a public meeting. It can. Yeah. There we 00:58:12
go. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Thank you. 00:58:17
Alright. So what you're saying then is it's possible to have the Planning Commission be the final approving by for the preliminary 00:58:24
plat application process and that's that's what you have here and like I see because I look at the shorts, OK. 00:58:30
All right. Well, I appreciate the clarification. 00:58:37
Sorry, sorry for that. Thank you for your service. 00:58:41
OK, motion to close the public especially. 00:58:52
Do you have a second, second all in favor? All right. OK. 00:58:56
Umm, send me that. At this point do do we on Commission have any more questions or? 00:59:04
I, I have a, a comment on one of them for the certificate of occupancy. Umm, you know, they, they've taken away a lot of our 00:59:11
enforcement capability there. And I know there's gonna be continue to be situations where you're not gonna have landscaping put in 00:59:17
right away, but you're gonna have developers, the one that get additional permits. But it makes sense. Tie it too, I guess wanna 00:59:23
make it very clear that when you do the review occupancy. 00:59:29
It identifies if there's non compliance and then defines any ongoing fines go to the developer on record for that permit and never 00:59:36
the homeowner until the developer. 00:59:42
On this other one, and then we have to account for scenarios of like in the winter, sometimes you can't do final landscaping 01:00:17
because of weather or winter. And that would be a separate. Essentially, if you want another permit, you know, you agree to 01:00:22
whatever this agreement is, but it it puts it firmly on the developer Dimitrios obligations. Because I remember when we were 01:00:27
building this flagship, we never had a final burn put in. We moved in in January. So we had a lot of issues with with the ground 01:00:33
water. 01:00:38
Final grading wasn't, you know, done appropriately until they landscaped. We had water coming into the wells and and we literally 01:00:44
we had to spend 6 months to convince them that you never even put the bourbon. They thought, no, we did it and you know, it just 01:00:48
washed away that final landscaping those aspects. 01:00:53
Yeah, I think it's important to account for it and make it that they have to do it and we don't put any burden on the occupants 01:00:59
that they stole the properties. 01:01:03
How we're works for training in Utah is umm, the code enforcement always have to go to the property owner owner. And so Jamie is 01:01:10
gonna actually come and do a, do a training with us. Umm, he's gonna do like the open meetings law training and then umm, just 01:01:15
have general training. So I think sort of course it might be a really good one that we can dig in with them and then we we can 01:01:21
meet with them too umm, and see because. 01:01:27
To, to your point, I, I agree, I mean, it, it feels like the developer is the one kind of get getting, getting away with an 01:01:34
obligation. And so it'd be great if I could go back to them. But how it's set up right now is code enforcement always has to go to 01:01:40
the property owner instead trying to kind of kinda kinda find, umm, you know, a, a, a way that we could put that obligation on the 01:01:47
developer. But right now we're supposed to go through the, the property. So we, we'd have to kind of find, yeah, some solutions. 01:01:54
Well, unfortunately the state law is written with that intent. Make it as easy as possible fill out. And so I get the reason 01:02:02
behind it because there clearly is a housing crisis and we want to be able to build homes for as many people as possible, but we 01:02:08
want to make sure we're doing it responsibly. One of the potential solutions, and this is something I would just ask our city 01:02:14
attorney to look at the legality of it is. 01:02:20
One of the ways to make sure the developers ultimately on the hook is. 01:02:27
Uh, putting liens on the property, which could of course not usually does that, the very last resort step, but you can record a 01:02:32
notice of intent to file a lien that ultimately doesn't have a whole lot of meat to it, but it scares the heebie jeebies out of 01:02:39
anyone trying to sell a property if there's any kind of flag that says there's a notice of intent to file a lien. And so I've 01:02:46
asked our city attorney to check to see if that's even an option. I think that is. 01:02:54
It it could be considered fairly extreme and ultimately that's not our decision, but I'd like to just explore that as a 01:03:02
possibility. I think I could get to Chris. 01:03:05
Point as well and I we we do uh notices of non compliance umm and we, we've done that quite a bit and so umm yeah what what let's 01:03:10
explore something that's typed in the title yeah because something that's tied to the title would get developers attention a bit 01:03:17
more that sometimes would take out what we find is there's good intentions get as many units as possible on board as soon as 01:03:24
possible, but then they they don't think through like these these loan ramifications so umm. 01:03:31
I would say that the team had let's get them occupied. But we want builders here that are gonna finish what they're building. 01:03:40
Absolutely. 01:03:43
I, I like the idea if then maybe that is a way we can, we can talk to Jamie on that. But if, you know, previous lots in that same 01:03:48
subdivision don't have their landscaping, can we then hold up to future ones? I we, we can, we can check on that and see if that's 01:03:54
possible because that, that, that could be a really or the, or like a, yeah, a notice of intent or umm, not non conformist or 01:04:00
something, something like that. 01:04:06
Or it triggers an immediate reassessment of value of your subdivision loss. I don't know, sorry. 01:04:13
You lose you, you, you lose to us every time, you know. 01:04:20
Just keep dropping so. 01:04:25
So good. Yeah, we, we, we heard you guys. Well, we'll make sure that's a, that's a topic that that gets addressed with the 01:04:27
attorney. We, we can find a good road map to address those issues. 01:04:31
The fact that people laughed at that, it tells us we all know way too much about development. 01:04:38
OK. OK. Anything else? 01:04:49
Unless there's other discussion, I'd have to make a motion. 01:04:55
Uh, I think we're ready. I think all my questions were brought up and answered, so yeah. 01:04:58
OK, so I'll, I'll, I'll move to the forward a positive recommendation to the City Council for the ordinances presented. Uh 01:05:05
202412024220243 as presented by staff. UMM, and I'm so sorry for those taking minutes with the only amendment being to please 01:05:12
follow up with the attorney based off the items we discussed, clarifying the RDA and putting the full name of the redevelopment 01:05:20
agency, umm, and any of the other items that we discussed. 01:05:27
Meaning that the the follow up line. 01:05:35
OK. Do we have a second? Second. OK, all in favor. 01:05:38
We'll do our best. Chris Bramwell. Bye. Kate. And I, OK. I, Brad and I, Nathan, I thank you. 01:05:43
What looks like we vote in favor of forwarding. And that brings us to item 4, our work session. Uh. 01:05:56
Reception for all right Item 4.1. Technology elements of the general plan. 01:06:06
Uh, looks like Morgan will leave a discussion with us regarding amendments to the technology element to the general plan. It looks 01:06:12
like there's some work done on the security aspect with this here. Yeah, a little bit. So as part of the general plan, So, umm, 01:06:20
we, we know that, umm, privacy and personal information and security of, of the, of that information is, is really important to 01:06:27
the public. I heard that quite a bit. Uh, if you remember, we worked with SRT Labs, Umm, they're a group that, that was. 01:06:34
Having given license plate data and, and we're, we're seeing some of that with structured parking, Umm, and, and also if there's 01:07:12
like security cameras, do people want, want, you know, uh, a file save somewhere showing, showing with their face. And you know, 01:07:18
like those are, those are real concerns that, that, umm, that, that people have. 01:07:23
And umm, and those concerns that the city has as well, umm, part part of like the, the technology stuff that we talked about in 01:07:31
the past is more of umm, kind of in the realm of like, how do we, umm, how do we have better water conservation? Uh, we've gone 01:07:38
through a drought, you know, umm, I think we're may technically still be in the drought. Umm, and so today's not a good yes. I 01:07:44
just know I've been, I've been seeing a lot so. 01:07:51
I'm just, I'm loving all the avocado. Umm but umm. 01:07:59
Umm, you nominated umm commissioner Brownwell, umm, to assist, not airport. He's been, umm, real, really great and is, I'd say 01:09:04
the, the state expert, if I, if I can say that or not. Umm, but he's, uh, he, he's been fantastic in helping us kind of understand 01:09:11
umm, the, the, this industry, uh, typically not an issue that is that a city planner tackles umm, and so having his expertise has 01:09:18
been invaluable. So just kind of run through these and I could just kind of read them out. Umm, in goal 2 adding. 01:09:26
Adopting secure communication channels and assuring to exchange thanks change with sensitive information called established 01:10:04
privacy guidelines and regulations and striving forward and new implemented security measures to stay XR sensitive data as part of 01:10:11
a techno technological advancements, thereby fostering public trust and confidence. Strategy 5. Ensure that all current and future 01:10:19
city contracts include measures that protect sense of data and dispose of it properly. And then there's a 610. 01:10:26
Uh, sorry. 01:10:34
Umm, strategy 6 update forms on which personal information is collected to ensure a notice of purpose and use of that information 01:10:39
and to ensure use of the information is limited to those purposes and uses. And so this will provide us kind of those general 01:10:45
guidelines. I, I would assume that if the city this, this would also kind of help the city if they were to establish a more 01:10:52
robust, umm, privacy policy, umm. 01:10:58
That you know that, that, that, that that would kind of be kind of the, the next step, Umm, but this will provide us just good 01:11:05
general plan type guidance as we do city planning. If we're looking at like smart technologies or things that we can implement to, 01:11:10
to provide. 01:11:14
Using there's no way we could manage that, but as we partner with these entities, they'll have other strategies that they 01:12:20
integrate together with what we're doing to ensure that regardless of who's collecting the data, you know, if you come to 01:12:24
Vineyard, you, you should be confident that you can just, you know, experience your whatever you wanna do here and you're not 01:12:29
being surveilled. 01:12:33
So you have a drone overhead that follows every other. 01:12:39
Drones nowadays, like log on to you and they call you. Yeah. I don't see if they were doing that. 01:12:44
Umm. 01:12:52
Any comment specialist additions? I, I, I just wanna say, umm, when it comes to the general plan, I think this is well written. 01:12:53
Uh, I think these strategies make sense. Umm, the goals and strategies are the overarching. Why do we do what we do? The nitty 01:13:01
gritty of how it's established that is hours and hours and hours of work modifying the municipal code and other city policies in 01:13:08
order to enact it. But when it comes to setting us in the right direction, which is what the purpose of the. 01:13:16
Our plan is I think this does a great job. 01:13:23
Yeah. I mean, that was my comment. This is as I read through this and as you went through it, we talked about it. Yeah, I love the 01:13:27
overall vision, but it has to, you know, carry through all of our current, so it says current and future city contracts. So I 01:13:34
understand the future contracts will be more sensitive to holding like looking through the initial contract or whatever it is and 01:13:41
making sure the privacy. 01:13:47
Uh, measures are taken, but I think we also need to go back and look at how we're currently using data, what's being done and, and 01:13:55
shoring up that. 01:14:00
To come in to compliance with it so is there any kind of our discussion too like just the disposal of information like don't don't 01:14:06
hold on people's private data if you don't need it like you know right yeah retention policy is good yeah uh OK I think this is on 01:14:12
for for workshops you're welcome our next steps to let you know would be to take this to City Council for a work session and come 01:14:18
back to you for a public hearing and then the account of the public hearing and hopefully adoption. So we got a couple months this 01:14:24
doesn't require any formal. 01:14:30
No, no, not, not that. I just wanted to get your comments. Umm. And yeah, you're welcome to on strategy three, there is one change 01:14:36
we take to maximize the sharing of data. Usually you wanna minimize, you wanna use as as like use it for the purpose of use, but 01:14:44
minimize the amount of sharing of personal data you're doing. So I, I, I read that use technology to maximize transparency. 01:14:52
And how decisions are being made. That's how I read that one with with the original language. OK. 01:15:01
I think that makes sense. Yeah, OK. Yeah, because it's decision making processes to maximize the sharing of information because I 01:15:08
hate it when a decision is made and I'm like, oh, what about your meeting questions? This is saying there is an 80 backroom. Yes, 01:15:15
it is public. By adopting secure communication channels and ensuring the exchange of sensitive information follows established 01:15:22
privacy guidelines. I think that's the way of saying share absolutely everything that is appropriate to share. 01:15:29
If there are things that are happening within closed sessions that are legally required to be closed sessions, then establish why 01:15:36
they're closed. So have transparency of the process, of the technology the procedures facilitate, but not on private, yeah, but 01:15:41
not of the information. 01:15:45
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we, we can, we'll play around with languages and bring that back. OK. Could you repeat the exact change that you 01:15:50
are recommending so I can know it? I, I didn't recommend any exact change. Yeah, umm, it was just clarifying what the intent of 01:15:57
Strategy 3 was, which I believe was to encourage transparency in any information or data that the decision making bodies were 01:16:03
using to make that decision. 01:16:10
Thank you. That's not it. 01:16:17
OK, cool. Alright. David had his hand raised. You're welcome. Please do. 01:16:19
Real quick on strategy 5 is that also includes that we would, uh, the contractors as well as future contracts would, uh, protect 01:16:31
is that, is that wording strong enough to make sure that's included or, or we need to specify that in particular? Uh, because this 01:16:38
is not code, it doesn't have to be so specific. So this is a guideline. No, I understand. 01:16:46
Well, one of the guidelines you wanna have is the contractors will be our, you know, our Co, you know, whatever standards we have 01:16:55
in place, honestly, the standards won't begin. This document don't just nitty gritty as you spoke out, it was a facility. It would 01:17:01
be good to indicate, I think that we want them to abide by that. Mm-hmm. 01:17:07
State code for any governency, anybody that you share personal information with, umm, they're supposed to abide by, you know, 01:17:14
privacy and security, tractual obligations. So theoretically, yeah, they would have to do it. But I think this gets down to the 01:17:20
nitty gritty of implementation of this is setting that big picture of the other goal is absolutely contractors that are like IT 01:17:26
contractors. Like that's the easy one, but like the concept of an actual contractor building stuff like with the the Forge 01:17:32
project, that's much more complex. 01:17:38
And I think state code will catch up over the next few years, but Vineyard cares enough to at least have the discussion and and 01:18:14
our our developers here seem more than open to have that discussion as well. 01:18:19
Yeah, I, I, I think we're hearing what you're saying is let's make sure it is fully encompassing of everything. Umm, and you could 01:18:26
bold the word all. I, I, I think ensure all contracts. But the thing that's even the contract I signed to get a library card. I 01:18:34
want to make sure the stuff that's private. If you need my address, I don't want everyone to know my address. We need to make sure 01:18:41
we are protecting that sense of data between my kids getting a library card or between. 01:18:48
Builder XYZ buying a lot of land that was originally owned by the city. Making sure. 01:18:56
All that is protected. 01:19:01
Yeah, I guess I'm suggesting that the wording VS. So Reed ensures that all current attitude city contracts and contractors include 01:19:04
measures that protect sensitive data to solve it properly. OK, I mean, that's that. 01:19:11
A terrible thing to add. And the contractor. Thank you. I can be on the staff report. Yeah. 01:19:20
I will. I will say is that I spent a few years working in marketing and now I'm in IT and I. 01:19:27
As value protection of data and so moving forward, that's the high priority for me as well. 01:19:33
Because I've seen what they can do with it. Yeah, but my favorite? 01:19:41
It is umm. 01:19:46
OK, yeah. So there's no action needed and we'll umm, well, yeah, we'll, we'll take a Thomas and we'll make some adjustments and 01:19:49
we'll work session next with City Council public hearing with you and then back to City Council public hearing, OK. 01:19:55
Alright, umm, if that's it then. 01:20:03
That brings us to Commission Members reports and expect a discussion disclosure. 01:20:06
Anybody else I should have something to say What you did? This was umm, I'll start. Mine is really brief. Umm, I just wanted to 01:20:14
say last week I met with city staff, uh, just to get more well accustomed and acclimated to what this role is, better 01:20:20
understanding of it all, and it was a good day. 01:20:27
Excellent. 01:20:35
Over here. 01:20:37
Yeah, I was also a member Great. Umm, and I think just moving forward for me, just getting caught up. I'm looking forward to, they 01:20:39
mentioned, uh, Jamie will come in. Will that be in a Planning Commission meeting where he'll give the training, the open meetings 01:20:45
training, which I'm looking forward to becoming more familiar with, with the roles and responsibilities and what, how I can 01:20:51
contribute on this Commission and then umm. 01:20:57
Yeah, just moving forward the the required education and and training that that I need to go through and that that we all need to 01:21:05
do on the yearly basis. So, yeah, uh. 01:21:10
That's it for me and there, there are some, uh, good trainings coming up. Umm, there's the, umm, bike summit and that, that's 01:21:15
probably the fun one. You can see all the bike initiatives that they have coming up and trying to look up the date on that. And 01:21:21
then the other is the Utah APA. That's the general planning one that that was a lot of fun. It'll be in Cedar City and we, we 01:21:27
budgeted to, to send who, whoever wants to go. Umm, we understand that tip goes like right in the week. So umm, so that what is 01:21:33
that? 01:21:39
May 31st oh last year yeah when you get the date for the bikes, I'm gonna let you know. Do you wanna look at you type yeah, I 01:21:46
think that's a may umm about the Cedar City. It's a good time of year go down and you know don't go to conference. It'll be a 01:21:52
really good one. If you wanna go let us know We'll uh we did budget for it so we can pay for travel for your hotel and your your 01:21:59
ticket. I I expect PTO for this year. I can actually go yeah that'll be fine yeah. 01:22:06
May, May 8th through the 10th. So, uh. 01:22:14
And, uh, typically there's, uh, uh. 01:22:19
So, so they'll have like a, a conference deal at the hotel or whatnot, but you wanna just let, uh, let cash know, umm, if you're, 01:22:22
if you're interested in going and we'll, we'll get you signed up and we'll, we'll get your hotel unless you wanna stay somewhere 01:22:28
really Swank or something like that. 01:22:33
So I don't know what the budget date or whatever. So really nice. It's under the, uh, the overpass. 01:22:39
You're gonna you're gonna love it, but Cedar City, bring your mountain bike, honestly. So after the conference is always fun. Just 01:22:48
do whatever the fun stuff is around town. Cool. Umm, thank you. Awesome. 01:22:54
Is there anything else for you? So good. All right. And in that case, I will say that meeting is adjourned. We will see you in two 01:23:02
weeks. 01:23:07
That was much better than the last. 01:23:16
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Yeah, cool. We'll do that. We'll start with that and then we will open up our session. 00:00:00
All right, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation 00:00:10
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:17
Awesome. Thank you. 00:00:25
OK, umm, that brings us to item 2, which is our open session for our public to come and comment with the, uh, if you could limit 00:00:29
yourself to three minutes and make sure it's not on anything that is on our agenda for the evening. 00:00:37
Yeah. 00:00:48
Yeah, I just wanted to introduce our, our two new planning commissioners, uh, for the public, uh, Nathaniel, umm. 00:00:57
And we have Cadence Roden. Roden, yeah, I like it. Uh, SO2UH-2 new plan commissioners. And if you guys just wanna say something 00:01:04
quick about yourself, kinda made a little bit back background to the public and get to get to know you a little bit, but. 00:01:11
Sure. Hi everyone My name is Nathan live here in vineyards and I'm very excited to be a part of the Planning Commission. I have a 00:01:20
background of over 10 years in uh, urban planning, uh, serving in several different cities as a staff member, umm, in various 00:01:27
communities across the country. Umm, and grateful now to DPRI now work in the private sector. And so I'm excited to continue doing 00:01:34
all of my urban planning stuff here serving the community that I. 00:01:41
So that it should be certain. 00:01:49
Cool. Umm put me on the spot, Morgan. I wasn't expecting this, but I'm excited to be here as well. I'm, Kayden wrote. And I've 00:01:53
lived here in Vineyard for three, just over three years. Uh, I've been involved with the city since I moved in. I was chair of the 00:02:00
bike Commission and had been involved in different capacities with the central parks plan and other, the active transportation 00:02:07
plan as well as the master transportation plan. So. 00:02:14
I love I don't have any formal degrees in urban planning, but I spend my free time reading books and watching YouTube videos about 00:02:22
urban planning and, uh, land use. So I'm excited to, to be here. So thank you. Thanks so much and welcome. 00:02:29
So sorry you go back to public comment, I'm glad. 00:02:40
Because it's good to get to know those commission's a little bit better. OK, so umm, especially open session public has any 00:02:44
comments? We would love to have a. 00:02:49
OK. And then say your name, neighborhood? 00:02:58
And diarrhea hasn't. 00:03:02
Happy new Year. Happy new Year. 00:03:05
This is the new year and umm, new opportunities and it looks like as I was reading through the new plan that's coming through, 00:03:08
looks like you'll have more authority with new head, with head of de department. And as you move forward, I hope that umm, you 00:03:15
will consider the needs of vineyards along with the wants of the developers that come in that you can come to a good consensus 00:03:23
that will benefit all of us. Thank you. 00:03:30
Hysteria. 00:03:39
Nicola I mean, yes, you're here. 00:03:42
Sorry for go. OK, so move on to UMM 3, which is business item. Umm, we'll go to. 00:03:47
Let's see, we need to open up a public hearing. Yeah, for item 3.1. 00:03:56
Yeah, you, you can open it now, umm, but then allow umm, that, that way someone asks a question. But I, I would let Anthony kinda 00:04:02
go through his presentation and umm, and then probably formally take public comment after that. OK, we'll plan on that. My 00:04:09
suggestion. Cool. Yeah, if we can have every prevent and then we will open up after that for public comment. And I'll just do a 00:04:16
really quick intro of that. Everyone knows Anthony Fletcher, our planner, umm, him and, uh, Rachel, umm. 00:04:23
Our UMM planner who is remote out of Las Vegas. 00:04:30
Really feel gel gently over the last several months, umm, the state code SB has sent a bill 174 has a lot of requirements for 00:04:33
subdivisions. Umm, you'll see that basically every year, umm, the, the, the state has mandates that we uh, essentially trunc, 00:04:41
truncate the process as much as possible to help deliver as as many houses as as you possibly can. There's still that huge umm 00:04:48
housing for as you think umm, this past year we're 30 to 40,000 UI units, uh, unit de deficit of. 00:04:56
Of where this stage is trying to be so that's that that that's every year that's, you know a good thing that we wanna get more 00:05:03
housing for people but umm, but also it it, it does have impact on on our process umm and so umm, Anthony is gonna take you 00:05:09
through that So Anthony and Rachel, they've done a really great job they've gone through our entire code they've done an audit 00:05:15
umm, of, of our subdivision ordinances and processes to make sure that we're in line and so why he's gonna be presenting tonight 00:05:21
are those amendments. 00:05:27
To be in line with SB174 plus there are some staff suggestions and he'll take you through those as well. Our thought was as we're 00:05:33
making these amendments, there are other changes we have that, that we'd like to see each those, uh, those ordinances as well. And 00:05:38
so, umm, without any further ado, actually take it away. 00:05:44
Thank you very much, Morgan. Hi, my name is Anthony Morgan and I will be taking you through the subdivision ordinance amendments. 00:05:52
So as Morgan already shared with you, we UMM, are doing this as a directive to be in line with what the state requires for us. And 00:06:02
also, uh staff has umm, taken the opportunity to claim, do a general cleanup of the uh, code that we have here in the city. So 00:06:11
this Senate Bill 174, UMM, has to be approved and passed. I mean approved and effective by February 1st of 2024. 00:06:21
And this only applies to, uh, one family to a family and townhome subdivisions. Umm, that is a requirement from the state. But as 00:06:31
part of the code clean up, we're hoping or making our recommendation of staff to have this process the same across board for all 00:06:37
applications. This will make it more, umm, seamless for us during applications and, uh, processes that we have to go through as 00:06:44
staff. 00:06:51
So, umm, this bill? 00:06:59
UMM freedom. I talked about the UMM processes, changes in process with the preliminary subdivision, final subdivision and Adu 00:07:02
parking requirements as well as landscaping bonds. 00:07:08
I know you may all be aware of umm how these are already know this, but this is just a fresh of course for lack of a better word. 00:07:18
So on the left is umm a preliminary plat and on the right I have a final plat. So the left side you you can tell that that 00:07:25
preliminary plat only shows the various parcels, the street network and pretty much giving you a general idea of what could happen 00:07:32
in that large parcel. 00:07:39
Land and the final is a piece off that prelim preliminary that has a lot more detail. So it shows more, uh, more details such as, 00:07:46
uh, set back, umm, more information about specific lots and, uh, Rd. names and many more. And, uh, $5 to anyone who can guess that 00:07:53
flat. One of the last, do you remember this? Probably kept paying up for, uh, for knives and knives. I think we only met on like 00:08:01
20 times. 00:08:08
So all this is from hold away, hold the way failed. Yeah alright, so, umm, as you know, in the development process, after you've 00:08:18
gone through the preliminary in the final, then move on to the site, uh, site plans, which there's more site specific and more 00:08:25
detailed goes all the way to elevations and giving you material certifications and more. So in this presentation I'll be using. 00:08:33
Subdivision and plat intertangibly so. 00:08:42
Just in case you don't get confused. So for the for the preliminary subdivision code amendment, we divided it into what umm the 00:08:45
code requires and what staff is recommending. So the the SB174 requires that. 00:08:54
All preliminary subdivisions or plan applications, uh do not have a pre application meeting as a full requirement. It's not 00:09:04
optional, so an applicant can decide to request for that. The approval body as well has changed from UH City Council to Planning 00:09:12
Commission and umm, also the state requirements. 00:09:20
The state requires that we have to limit, uh, several plans complete at 50%. We don't need a full complete. 00:09:30
Uh, plan for several plans for the preliminary level staff recommendations will be the engineering review cost. Umm, has, has been 00:09:37
taken out or will be taken out, uh, to kind of replace with the fee schedule. Umm, we had that because prior to having a full 00:09:46
time, uh, engineer on staff, we had to contract this out. So we have to put this piece in the code. 00:09:54
To make room for payment uh of the review engineering reviews, hard copies are no longer required. 00:10:03
Applications are gonna be online. 00:10:10
Umm, parcel addressing has to be by the city engineer. 00:10:13
And the preliminary utility plan and landscape plans are to be provided on the same sheet overlaid so we can tell what is where. 00:10:18
Then instead of that, in the past, we've had umm, a, a lot of issues where the applicant will have their civil engineers do a 00:10:26
design, umm, and then the landscape architect will do a design, but they'll talk to each other. And so when they actually put in 00:10:33
the, the infrastructure, you know, trees get taken out and all the land. 00:10:40
Changes, so it's got some pretty extreme cases, but I just thought it's one of those things where now we just wanna see it on one 00:10:48
plan. Those those two need to communicate. So anyway, hopefully this helps to that end. Thanks, Morgan. So, uh, we have also 00:10:55
recommended that umm, we I mean we include maintenance responsibilities for HOA to have a clear cut what the public works would be 00:11:03
in charge of and what your HOA would be in charge of when it comes to things like. 00:11:10
Going and all that, umm, the title report components have also been added In the past, we've had applicants confused title reports 00:11:18
with umm, title insurance because they look alike. But uh, the second things that we look out for that we want to make it easier 00:11:25
for applicants to identify and submit with the final subdivision code amendment, we have the approval body being, uh, changed from 00:11:31
City Council to. 00:11:38
The Development Review Committee DRC UMM. 00:11:45
He would not also allow concurrent applications, UMM and side plan. I mean concept plans are now optional but we do recommend that 00:11:50
staff to. We strongly recommend our staff to include that in your application and application review should also take place within 00:11:58
20 business days. As staff we have also recommended that UMM after a final plan has been approved. 00:12:07
Uh, we allow for two years. It used to be one year before it would be required to be re recorded, but we're umm, requesting that 00:12:16
that is changed to two years. 00:12:20
So, umm, on the approval body for the final subdivision, uh, we have decided to to go based on the code, go with a more technical 00:12:28
approval body as a land use authority. That's why it's the DRC. Now the DRC, if this is approved, would be would the meetings will 00:12:36
become more public, will be public and would have posted a posted agendas and minutes. 00:12:45
And would have voted members be a chair of the Planning Commission, the city manager, the. 00:12:54
Redevelopment of the RDA Director umm the the heads of departments for building, engineering, community development and parks and 00:13:01
Recs. 00:13:06
So these are, I can imagine, so right now how DRC is worked out, it's a, uh, it's more of like an advisory body and it also 00:13:14
provides assistance to applicants. S criminal command will provide comments and they'll come to VRC. DRC members will, umm, will 00:13:21
help answer questions. We'll explain comments. Umm, and so a lot of like a member of the fire department there as well. And so 00:13:29
it's right now it's, it's, it's more of a kind of an informal value that just helps with the applicants. 00:13:36
Through that, that process and then addressed comments and to understand kind of the objectives of the code. Umm, what we would do 00:13:43
though, is when we get a final plat, that's when we, we would sit up here for that medium. It would be a formal decision. Umm, but 00:13:49
if there's not a final flat, it'll still be like just an informal body where we just can't be with applicants. But in, in the 00:13:55
event that we have a final plan, that's where it'd be a formal not meeting. 00:14:01
So that final class, is there a requirement they recorded before they sell any loss in a private area or to make sure you're 00:14:08
selling lost before you have money? Yeah. 00:14:14
Here, you know, they don't report it and I have a problem with that, which is for uh, because it wasn't recorded, but it was sold 00:14:51
and it was legal and then it was never recorded. You run into issues. Umm, so if we say that it's a boy, but they've already pre 00:14:58
sold a lot in there or somebody thinks that they have that good right and they spoke lost, but it's not yeah ma'am. Maybe the pre 00:15:06
sale is more just putting them in a line to do the official sale where they'll they'll obtain title umm. 00:15:13
Yeah. So a a real estate sale can't be finalized and recorded unless it's tied to an APN and usually it's not, well it's not 00:15:20
usually at the recording of the plat is when the Apns are assigned and the test or parcel number is assigned. And so any sale that 00:15:27
happens prior to an accessible parcel number being assigned to this new. 00:15:34
Subdivided lot or this plat that's getting umm, all recorded. Any cell that happens there is void because it's not technically 00:15:42
tied to any legal property. And so, umm, I kind of echo your question. I don't know, sheriff. It's best to kind of as Anthony 00:15:48
going to ask questions or just save our questions until at the end of the presentation. It's whatever you prefer. Umm, I was also 00:15:55
asking about. 00:16:01
Why the two years rather than the one year? Because that does open the doors, in my opinion, for. 00:16:08
Challenges and problems to arise. 00:16:15
Umm, so we allowed for the two years to give developers or applicants more time to get their ducks in the row because it takes 00:16:19
understanding based on previous applications, uh, has been that it takes a lot more time for them to get, umm, everything ready 00:16:25
and going for building to start. So. 00:16:31
Right, but it's to record. Is there a requirement that means construction has to commence immediately after recording? 00:16:39
Umm, I think I need some help at this point. 00:16:49
No, I'm assuming there are some engineer. 00:16:57
Umm, so the way with the plat, the way platforms and construction is as a developer gets preliminary slots and, uh, is wishing to 00:17:00
proceed with construction, uh, they would be required to do a performance fund which is at 110% of the, uh, cost construction, uh, 00:17:08
review that created by myself and, uh, Patrick, uh, as well and. 00:17:16
It's uh, uh, which would guarantee the, you know, the completion of the law. 00:17:25
Completion prior to our official clapping. 00:17:31
That, uh, in regards to, uh, receiving, uh, certificate of occupancy for uh, last thing so far to a official final class be done, 00:17:34
uh. 00:17:39
That would, uh, I, I believe that without the, uh, different routes by the, umm, by the state too. So those will not be able to 00:17:46
sell a lot until the final path is done officially reported. So it really comes down to is, is so recording the plat and not 00:17:52
really just comes down to, uh, the, uh, the type of bond that the developer would replace the city, but there's plenty of 00:17:59
developers out there that will get the lots ready. 00:18:05
And then we'll sell to various home builders. And so my question is, is there any timeline, I'm not aware of any state where 00:18:12
there's a timeline of after you have recorded a plat you have to commence. And in terms of if my thoughts recorded and this is 00:18:19
part of the part of the potentially the design. So after class reporting, there's no requirement in terms of starting 00:18:26
construction. I used to be in the private development business. 00:18:33
Many, many years ago. 00:18:40
But we would have zoning approvals and so forth, we record the plots and there was, there was, uh, the plot would be recorded with 00:18:42
a loss and we would make the determination of whatever, uh, to develop or sell the whole entire thing. So proportions of it. Uh, 00:18:49
however, what, uh, for our engineering side and the time requirement comes down to even after customer record, before their, uh, 00:18:56
before they were billed, they would have to submit 100% complete design. So for example, someone, uh. 00:19:03
Submit the uh, record the files and then five years later decide to, uh, develop it. 00:19:12
They would need to meet the construction standards at the time that they submit, uh, prior to developing, at the time that they 00:19:20
submit the, the construction permit to, to actually build. So they would have to, which should not affect, uh, per SE, the, uh, 00:19:27
the private itself would really come down to the carriage of retailers, etcetera. Umm, but there was in essence, they would be 00:19:34
entitled to, umm, any other type of development standards. For example, Broadway was, uh, of the file at that at that time. 00:19:42
So there's no set standard of when someone has to, uh, build after some files. Umm, again, I haven't been the private sector. Uh, 00:19:50
we've had, we've had, uh, developers pilot and sat there for four or five years because of their economy, because we cannot afford 00:19:57
to actually develop it. And then this, this is referring to with a final plan is approved by, by the city to win again, gets 00:20:05
reported so that it's not like it's a destruction piece of it. Uh, so yeah, like this is so. 00:20:12
It'll just allow for, for that to be, uh, to be recorded with accounting after it's been approved by the city and reported with 00:20:19
accounting. Uh, it's gonna correct me if I'm wrong, but the, the ball is in the city's hands in order to get recorded, uh, not 00:20:25
pursuing the developer correct? Because, uh, after it's improved with my large honest, everything gets signed and there's no, 00:20:31
there's no changes to the class yeah. Typically your final pack is recorded and then, umm, I think that's when you guys are 00:20:37
finishing up your technical re review. Umm. 00:20:43
Umm, and then it's, it's the, it's the, the distinguished process, any of those. 00:20:50
Yeah, the only difference I got, and I'll use everything example, uh, from when they were in five days approved to, uh, there 00:20:56
might be some changes. Uh, again, uh, Patrick and I, we recently, uh, we have one where all the changes were, were administrative 00:21:02
changes. For example, uh, the, uh, address thing, uh, was, was wrong. Like those San Jose area where the addressing was, uh, was 00:21:08
backwards in essence, like it was going to reverse order that the county wanted to be instead of taking over or there was a, a 00:21:14
street that's, uh. 00:21:20
With continuous St. it has a name on it, but the county stated that they have to have two separate names for that, you know, so 00:21:27
everything was Amit, all the changes that were not occurred with the class was all done administratively, wasn't there uh, wasn't 00:21:32
any changes to the law sizes, wasn't changes to any alignment. OK. 00:21:37
Umm, we can probably have this discussion later to get more. I don't wanna hike out your, uh, presentation anymore unless other 00:21:43
members of the board or Commission have wanted to talk about it further. 00:21:48
OK. Thank you. 00:21:57
So. 00:22:02
These, so these are the additional umm code changes by being recommended by SB174, UMM, the accessory dwelling unit, parking 00:22:05
minimums for accessory dwelling units UMM would be changed from 5:00 to 4:00 and it's it's a state requirement now. 00:22:14
Umm, we, we no longer require landscaping bonds to give, uh, so the states, uh, occupancy. 00:22:24
So the only way we can ensure that landscaping is done or all these improvements are done would be, uh, would have to be through 00:22:33
our code enforcement. 00:22:38
So it's just a parietal of what I'll need stuff to. So the first one, if you remember, I think a couple of years ago, AKA you, you 00:22:46
were on the Commission at that time. But we umm. 00:22:51
The so the the state with Adus is not on 1000 things to keep kind of reducing the requirements of citizens having ideas. Umm, we 00:22:56
were able to require one additional space right now single family hills require 4 parking on site parking spaces. So that allowed 00:23:03
us to require a 5th for umm, a house with an Adu. Umm, they've now come back and they've said no if you require for you can only 00:23:11
require 4 for single family, even if it's a single family with an Adu. And so when we had our work session with the UMM with the. 00:23:18
Council, they umm there there was some interest in internal work on the state level and the new legislative session and possibly 00:23:26
see if they can get that back because in a city like when you're not actually gonna have a pretty big impact, umm, you know, so I 00:23:32
don't, we don't necessarily know how expensive, but, uh, right now we're only allowed to just force you to make that amendment. 00:23:38
Hopefully we can bump that back up, umm to, to five. And then the other landscaping bonds. Umm, that's uh yeah. So when I take 00:23:44
like an office building for. 00:23:50
Throughout the billing is constructed, they haven't installed their landscaping. We will no longer be able to hold out their certi 00:23:56
certificate of occupancy, umm, based off the landscaping and like require bonds that that's how we do it now. Umm, if they don't 00:24:02
install it umm and so we just have to let them have their certificate of option occupancy and they work through code enforcement 00:24:08
and say you're in violation to the landscaping orders. So. 00:24:14
It might take a little bit more work on on the back end, but that's that's how it's set up right now. 00:24:21
So this table shows the designated approval board that we have in the city. City Council will remain umm as the approval body for 00:24:29
general plan master plans as well as rezoning, text amendments and uh, development agreements. Now with the preliminary plat as a 00:24:37
recap, has changed from City Council to Planning Commission. 00:24:45
And with the final plots as well, I have changed from City Council to the DRC. Garden permits and umm building Building permits 00:24:54
will still remain the same building stuff. 00:25:00
So next steps, umm, today we're having this public hearing generally, uh, 17th next week we will be having, uh, the City Council 1 00:25:09
and. 00:25:15
Hopefully it will be passed, our decision will be made. 00:25:21
So the proposed motion. 00:25:28
Umm for this? 00:25:30
Umm code amendment Proposed code amendment would be that you proposed to forward positive recommendation to the City Council for 00:25:34
Ordinance 202412 and three as presented by staff. 00:25:42
Thank you and please let me know, let us know if you have any other questions and if, if I understand one more point. Just uh, and 00:25:55
I know, uh, Anthony covers so this will that, that. So the state code only requires this process for one and two family dwellings. 00:26:02
That'd be single family home and then duplexes and townhomes. What staff is proposing is that all subdivision class follow the 00:26:09
same process. We, that's how they are now. They all follow the same process it. 00:26:16
Some administrative standpoint, umm, not much easier. Umm, and for the development community provides umm a lot more pro 00:26:23
predictability as far as process goes. And so that would be our re recommendation is that we keep those the same. But uh, you 00:26:29
don't have to make that recommendation. We just wanna be very clear that you can still have multi family umm, and commercial 00:26:35
subdivisions go through the existing process with the City Council umm, but we would recommend that they all follow the same umm 00:26:41
proposed. 00:26:47
So that's how they're written up. So if you wanna change that, you'd have to make it clear in the in the motion if you, if you 00:26:53
don't wanna do that. 00:26:57
Bring that clear. Thank you. I, I have a question on the changes because I mentioned the fee schedule in that right of, of how 00:27:01
that, uh, the plat review or engineering review is done and it's going from the, the requester pays all the fees. So now it's a, a 00:27:09
standard fee schedule. Is that right? So what's the, what's the impact of that? How does that actually change things? Is it just 00:27:16
everybody pays the same set fee regardless of the type of plat, single family, multi family. So am I, am I correct in like? 00:27:24
So we, we just follow our, our fee schedule now, umm, what? And so we, we do that anyway. We, we, we can't require fees that 00:27:32
don't, uh, that, that are above and beyond what the actual review process is that, that was kind of a more archaic, uh, provision 00:27:37
that was in there. We used to have, uh, we used JV engineering for a really long time and, umm, and using a consultant to your 00:27:43
views is quite expensive. And so that's, that's where it would allow us to assess these in a, in addition just to a straight 00:27:49
application fee so that we can cover. 00:27:55
Consultants fees, umm, correct if I'm wrong, I'm saying, but we're pretty much on the same page like, like they like right. We, we 00:28:01
just have well follow the same fee schedule now as opposed to discussing separately. Yeah, correct. Uh, so, umm, for example, the 00:28:09
technical review on the engineering review up to so many pages and so which again, umm, Patrick and I, umm, uh, it was in, it was 00:28:16
in to our discussions and uh, Patrick, uh, recently. 00:28:24
In the five seconds in the civil designs as well, umm, you know, those were a good obtainable and that was a, you know, a fair 00:28:31
number. And then to also include like the, the amount of time that we we typically put in there, There is a, there is a cap on it 00:28:37
down. Umm, you know, 3 reviews, uh, on the, uh, type. So, uh, this way, when we get specifically, we look at the some designs and 00:28:43
umm. 00:28:49
Uh, designs and keep, uh, trying to keep up with those fees that we would have to, uh, assess, uh, the developer beforehand. Like 00:28:58
trying to say, OK, well, this is what's gonna cost. If you scheduled it wasn't, uh, cognizant to what the designs available to use 00:29:04
were actually. So we would do like, it would be like 10-15, uh, guys are gonna have those numbers reviews. This actually put like 00:29:10
again, uh, number. So this way we provide that the, the, uh, insurance to developers. 00:29:16
And, uh, a, uh, a, a cap of how many times we would, we would do a review, uh, before. 00:29:24
Beforehand, umm, and, and then also kind of on the backside, uh, requesting that, uh, on the primary class side, uh, things were 00:29:30
they don't have to submit complete, complete design upfront that, uh, you know, the design we come at the technical review portion 00:29:36
with our, when they're ready to actually start, uh, doing the construction development, umm, uh, so that's kind of, uh, providing 00:29:42
that type of balance of that. And then there's other, there's, uh, we've contacted that with other fees and it's also consistent 00:29:48
across the board. 00:29:54
Uh, in terms of, uh, uh, in terms of the fees to ensure that we're providing Sr. but if there are balanced, consistent, uh, uh, 00:30:00
scheduling, we do have a provision, umm, that for, uh, specialized reviews. Like for example, if you have to do a hydraulic 00:30:07
modeling, uh, for some developer, developer, uh, that we would charge, uh, the cost over the consultant would charge, We have a, 00:30:15
uh, hydraulic modeling consultant, umm. 00:30:22
Where it would be their cost plus 10%. So we do have, I guess what if scenario if we have to go out to a third party to, to 00:30:30
provide a specialized and, uh, like unbiased, uh, review something as well. So, so, and I guess my, my concern would just be 00:30:36
making sure it's scalable. It's like somebody building a single family home usually, I would assume would have lower fees than 00:30:42
somebody building something much bigger and correct. And so Latino family home would be, uh, resolved underneath, uh, land 00:30:48
develop. 00:30:54
So we would have like a line development permit, uh, it was following any thoughts? And there's a line development permit for a 00:31:00
certain size, like under 50 or even a half acre and above and above, uh, and above 1/2 acre. So there's someone who buys a lot and 00:31:07
is going to, uh, and umm, you know, show the builder is going to come and build that one thing. They're not paying like almost 00:31:14
$3000 fee for a more simplistic review of. 00:31:21
Like what, 5 or 7 pages? 00:31:29
It's a land of land of service permit at a much lower rate and that's usually based on the size of the lots and disturbance of the 00:31:31
lot. And and also the flooding process does have included, uh, prices per lot. So, you know, one lot subdivision is, is a 00:31:38
different price than, you know, a A20 lot final plat, no. 00:31:44
Thank you. 00:31:51
You're good to, if you want to buy, is it OK if I just tell you a question before? OK, thanks. So, umm, the first, I just want to 00:31:59
say thank you, Anthony. I know this was a lot of work, not just to prepare the presentation, but to write all of this ordinance 00:32:05
stuff. So thank you. Umm, a lot of states right now are issuing a lot of these different state bills regarding housing, trying to 00:32:11
just sweep along as quick as possible. 00:32:17
Some are so incredibly extreme. Umm, I'm grateful that this Utah one at least gives us enough local control so that we can still 00:32:23
have at least some kind of design review and architectural review beforehand. Umm. So with that being said, there are a couple 00:32:31
questions that I have. I did e-mail Anthony before just a few clarifying questions. He did answer all of them, umm, and I was 00:32:38
satisfied with them. There's just two items that I wanted to raise, uh, for just a matter of discussion with all of us to see if. 00:32:46
On the same page with it, umm, the first one, I'm still not totally satisfied with the moving the time period to record a platform 00:32:53
one year to two years. Umm, And that might just be another discussion with staff to fully better understand why that was needed. 00:33:01
If it's a matter of making your job easier so that things can be done more properly. Totally supported. I wanna do whatever would 00:33:08
make your job easier. I just wanna get a better understanding as to the why. Umm, the second one was, I understood that it was. 00:33:16
What the state law required, we kind of have to do it, the requirement of the state regarding the landscape standards and 00:33:24
landscape improvements. Umm, before we were able to say that when, before you can get ACFO, a certificate of occupancy or before 00:33:31
we release any bonds, uh, you have to make sure your landscape is put in. You said you put trees on the plan. Where are the trees? 00:33:38
Unfortunately, now state laws like don't hold up the houses for that. Let them put it in without any trees. 00:33:45
That stinks. I we hate that. So what I asked Anthony and he said that would just be addressed by code enforcement. So I just want 00:33:53
to make sure. 00:33:57
And then we provide a time frame on that. And then if not, then we start going through that process. Perfect. And now rather than 00:35:01
that being a violation of the building code, it would just be a violation of other design standards of our community. So yeah. 00:35:08
Yeah. In violation of their site plan, but excellent. Mm-hmm. OK. Umm. And then the other items that I just wanna do before we 00:35:15
entertain motion is, umm, uh. 00:35:22
There's been a couple times in the ordinance where it refers to the RDA director. I would just say spell it out as the 00:35:29
redevelopment agency. Just, uh, that would be my only item. I get you actually do that, OK. 00:35:34
And that that and that's why you don't need to put that. We didn't need to do that. 00:35:41
OK. 00:35:45
OK, any more questions then I didn't have any of this topic. Is that is that is it do do we have like the at least code? Yes, I 00:35:49
mean really have it in the code, but I've noted that it would have that corrected. OK, thank you. 00:35:57
Cool. Nice to have processed. Thank you. 00:36:05
Yeah, and, and as far as the the the one to two years umm, from from from from the staff level, I think it just provides umm more 00:36:11
time and that kinda helps out with the overall process. I don't know if that's like a a deal killer or anything like that. If 00:36:18
that's, you know, the the the the one to two year umm is it is that to assist and provide the time for like your their technical 00:36:25
review and forgetting like the utilities and that kind of stuff like I guess from from a process wise you guys have. 00:36:32
That concern. 00:36:39
I think the timeline. 00:36:42
Was. 00:36:49
13 is my voice. 00:36:54
Yeah, I think it, I think it was to help with the technical review process or or the the the review process and getting that 00:36:58
recorded. 00:37:02
Any time it matters so that the process didn't have to be, uh, restarted, but we can certainly look at that more, uh, this is 00:37:08
really not working here. 00:37:13
Maybe before, umm, City Council, I, I, I guess you have examples of where, you know, like the one year was, was, was pushing 00:37:19
people out out of compliance with the current standards. Umm, I don't know if you guys have any examples of that or anything like 00:37:26
that. Yeah, I do. So, uh, hold the way children recently, uh, finally got their, their final plat recorded and it was like 51 00:37:34
weeks or something like that from their approval date that we bought it to the county. Just there were a lot of things. 00:37:41
Tested the interaction with the other agencies involved in order to get it done. 00:38:16
Sometimes there's delays and so adding that extra buffer just to make sure it's not a waste of taxpayer dollars to go through the 00:38:20
whole process all over again that that answers all of my questions. Well, one thing you could do and if you're fine with house, 00:38:27
right, that's that's cool. But like if you could have them request like a six month ex extension instead of having to go through a 00:38:34
process. So we have another city where where we've allowed them to come to the Planning Commission and make make a request. 00:38:41
Umm, so if and then they they could provide you those reasons and. 00:38:48
You know that it may be monitors to get 18 months and they can make another request. I mean, that's there there, there's a way of 00:38:52
kind of getting to the same, umm, goal. 00:38:57
Sure. And I don't know if it matters if, if there's some kind of transaction, uh, between whoever applied for and went through the 00:39:01
process of the original plat and then the new owners want to do something different. You can always amend 5I mean as the property 00:39:07
owner, you have the right to what you want to do on your own property. And so now with that clarification, any concerts I have are 00:39:12
gone. Thanks. 00:39:17
So, umm it would be good umm prior to some more Planning Commission discussions, I have the umm allow the public to get up and 00:39:25
then we can we can discuss any of their umm questions or concerns. OK, and public hearing we move and vote OK. 00:39:33
Who, uh, would you like to get a movement for public hearing? 00:39:43
Well, I I move to open the public hearing and the second. 00:39:49
One second. OK, Sir. All right, all right, all right. Thank you. All right, Public, you have whoever would like to come and speak 00:39:53
to this. You have 3 minutes. Please state your name and your neighborhood that needs your address. Yeah. Cornelius resident, umm, 00:40:00
I just wanted to lend my perspective for the 25 year general building contractor in California, both on residential and commercial 00:40:06
properties. 00:40:12
Interacted definitely with both of those. 00:40:18
Entities, if you want to call it that, in some discussion of the City Council meeting last week. 00:40:23
Talked with the two or three of the council members. 00:40:28
They are not yay or nay right now on the streamlining of the process between commercial, industrial and residential as far as the 00:40:32
approval process goes. 00:40:37
I know from my personal experience the the commercial side of things is intimately, more intimately, that's not the right word, 00:40:43
significantly more involved in the residential societies. And so my suggestion would be in your approving this tonight. And I 00:40:50
think there's some wisdom the state didn't mandate that those go together and be streamlined in the same process. I think another 00:40:57
set of eyes on it in the process, whether it's before the DRCI, don't think you put it after the DRC, but let the DRC. 00:41:05
The proven body, but one more set of eyes with the City Council. 00:41:13
Just gives you that maybe a little bit more assurance if you've covered all the bases, there's nothing lingering out there that 00:41:19
somebody missed, but we need to make sure we're just accounting for. So I just make that recommendation that maybe, maybe talk it 00:41:25
through, have them talk it through, do something to make sure that you know which way you want to go. But I would suggest if you 00:41:30
don't link the two together and make it a continuous process. 00:41:35
Sorry, it wasn't resident. Thank you. Umm, I just have a couple of questions. When you were talking about the landscaping, is that 00:41:51
retroactive to development that are in the process like I'm thinking Utah City or Holdaway Field? 00:42:00
Will they not have to put their landscaping in now before they issue certificates of occupancy? 00:42:09
Yes, you're correct. It it, yeah, as soon as it's approved it it it'd be in fact with, with with anything. 00:42:15
So. 00:42:22
All that is a disappointment. Oh. 00:42:25
Oh, that's just really that's really bad. OK, going on, I have I found some typographical errors. I don't know if it's important. 00:42:29
OK, but in 14.04 point 010. 00:42:37
You should change the word and to a where it says planner and engineer on a formal basis instead of fan formal, because that's 00:42:47
not. 00:42:52
Correct English and then also I also noticed on umm. 00:42:58
14.06 point 020, it has city engineer and you've been striking the word city, so I don't know if that needs to be striked again 00:43:03
too. 00:43:09
And then I have one more question. There's a lot of red lining and, uh, under the geotechnical report. 00:43:16
You know, vineyard is prone to liquefaction. You know, that's just the way the soil works here, Uh, thanks to Lake Bonneville. 00:43:24
But, umm, redlining? All about the grading and drainage plan. Why is that all struck out? 00:43:31
Umm, a Anthony can you can can can you ask that one? I, I know we talked about that umm, before I I think that was captured so 00:43:41
somewhere else. 00:43:45
I can talk to you that's under the preliminary plat umm, or preliminary subdivision. Umm, so, so I, we, we, we kept in as a 00:43:51
geotechnical report for a preliminary geotechnical report for the preliminary subdivision code. Umm, and, and so that will 00:43:58
capture. 00:44:04
Uh, just general hazards for the site? Umm. 00:44:11
Uh, and so, so there's, so that is going there. Umm, or part of it is OK. I just, I guess I just couldn't find it, but OK. And 00:44:17
then we also do geotext with the, for the billing experts at each specific site, right? Umm, So as far as the billing committee 00:44:24
will review those and I know there is a minimum standard that they need to follow. 00:44:32
Could we possibly raise that standard so that these people will build better for our community in case, you know, something 00:44:40
happens, you know, we don't know when, or I mean yes, when it will happen. So we should try to build a better standard for all of 00:44:48
our communities because. 00:44:56
Things happen. Yeah. We, we can bring that question to Chris Johnson. Our, our, our building official. Umm, I think maybe wanna 00:45:05
take a note of that. We can, umm, still help you as a City Council. We could have them, umm, you know, address that in addition to 00:45:11
the billing code we can require. OK, OK. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. 00:45:16
I'm sorry I didn't miss you. Uh, for the worst character, uh, just to kind of clarify that one last question, uh. 00:45:24
Any time changes in regards to build that I like to standards of building designs for. 00:45:32
Make it, uh, stronger and so forth. And that would be specifically to the building code and would be outside just like this 00:45:36
update. So it would, so even if this update goes, uh, goes through and, uh, if the city chooses what they would like to do 00:45:43
something else, uh, pertaining to that last point, it would be, it would have to go through a building code, uh, update. And of 00:45:50
course, uh, Chris Johnson can see specifically about, say, law requirements and so forth on that. 00:45:57
OK. Just wanted to make sure you're correct. Thank you. 00:46:05
Karen Cornelius, Senior Resident Umm, so my understanding after regarding this question is that this does pretend to utensiti as 00:46:10
well, this change and. And that's that. Yeah. For the landscape, it covers the whole city. So will landscaping now become the 00:46:17
responsibility of the homeowner or will it continue to be the development's responsibility? Can I speak to that real quick? Sure. 00:46:24
Yeah. So. 00:46:31
Ultimately what's happening, and that's why I asked for the clarification before. It used to be, I will not give you the piece of 00:46:38
paper that says you can occupy this building, unlike you put in all the trees you said you're gonna put in. State law has now 00:46:45
said, well, you can't do that or it used to be you have to put in a bond that that's ultimately holding money in collateral and 00:46:51
we're not gonna give you that back unless you put in all the trees you say we're gonna put it. State law has taken that away. 00:46:58
But ultimately, all that's done, it says now you can't use this hammer now we'll have to use this hammer instead. 00:47:05
We're still gonna have a hammer, only now it's gonna be done through code enforcement rather than through the building official. 00:47:12
So if the trees aren't put in, code enforcement calls them up and says you gotta put the trees in. And so that's ultimately what 00:47:18
it has to do. And that will be, and code enforcement is taken upon whoever is the property owner at that time when the code 00:47:25
enforcement infraction occurs. So then it could come to the home. 00:47:32
When that infraction occurs, so if they build the home and get a certificate of occupancy. 00:47:40
And the tree isn't there. They'll probably call in the developer because the developer is still the property owner or the home 00:47:45
builder is still the property owner at the time the CFO is issued. OK, well, code enforcement is one of my concerns because when 00:47:52
we talked about the 80 year parking and there being 5 required now, what is the enforcement on that? So there's umm, or so it 00:47:59
actually reduces it from 5:00 to 5:00. I understand that. 00:48:06
But who is enforcing the five at this point that they So what they do is they get a 80 permit. Umm, and so they, I understand all 00:48:13
that, but who is enforcing it? So, so before we give the so just let me, let me explain. So just before we give them a permit, 00:48:20
they have to demonstrate on their site that they have five part parking spaces. 00:48:26
Even the ones that you know have two car driveways, have street parking in front of their house is out of control because of the 00:49:03
Adu units. And so my question is if we're going to look at enforcement for our landscaping, I understand the enforcement is taking 00:49:10
place at the time of permitting, but then once that is permitted, what happens to that enforcement? So I, I don't and then this 00:49:17
may not be the body to answer that question, no. 00:49:24
These are really great, great, uh, questions, Karen. So what, what we do right now, umm, is we can enforce things if we can show 00:49:32
that they're, they're violating rule. Umm, now our, our code doesn't necessarily like say if you're a tenant of this Adu, you have 00:49:40
to park in that specific. So, umm, they do have to provide us on site. Umm, but if that specific St. umm, allows for on street 00:49:47
parking, then that person can park on the street. We, you know, if, if, if it's a just a public road and there's no restriction. 00:49:55
So basically it's just a formality then for them to show you that they have those places, but nobody's going to insist that they 00:50:33
use them. Yeah, right now, we, we can only enforce like a rule that that we have and we don't, we don't say you can't park on 00:50:38
streets unless it's been specifically designated. OK. OK. Thank you. Yeah, I understand your frustration. I, I think it's shared 00:50:44
by many, so. 00:50:50
All right, David Lorraine, President. 00:51:04
Umm thank you very much for your work. 00:51:09
Planning Commission, I appreciate it very much. I appreciate the, uh, you know, the questioning is much better this time than I've 00:51:13
seen in many changes as I requested. So thank you very much for your, your work and looking at it ahead of time and, and, and, uh, 00:51:20
and asking for your questions. Umm, I have a couple of concerns. Umm, first of all, umm, I, I likewise share the concern about 00:51:26
extending the recording of, of, uh, of the two years, uh, just on a broad basis. 00:51:33
I, I really would encourage you to look at the idea of a year plus, uh, the ability to request a four or six month extension or 00:51:40
something like that. 00:51:44
That was make it workable. We don't want to, you know, we don't want to unduly stress people, but at the same time we also want to 00:51:49
avoid situations that would, uh, entangle and would cause any undue legal entanglements when it comes to property problems, 00:51:54
though. 00:51:59
So I'm just thinking that might be the way to go with that. 00:52:05
Umm, have you parking? Umm, obviously we're all, we were bummed when they told us we couldn't have 6 spaces, only have 5. So we're 00:52:08
doubly bummed now. Umm. I'm wondering, is there any restriction on the size, uh, size requirement for those parking spaces? 00:52:17
Could any of them be extra wide perhaps? 00:52:26
I mean have you seen that Yeah. So have you seen the square footage of the plot here? Yes, I have. I, I mean I put in two parking 00:52:30
places of life, but I'm wrong. I believe it's an 8 foot width by umm, by 18 feet in length and that's what currently is now. I was 00:52:38
wondering do they have to do that the, the state requires that or is that that's our that's that's our code that that yeah 4480 00:52:45
users for like in the driveway. I know I had to build two of them yeah so, uh, anyway. 00:52:53
So the question is, could we modify that code so it's squired? 00:53:01
You then why is it that you wanna have like a zoning type type reason? Well, it seems to me that if we can investigate that, that 00:53:36
might be helpful. Something that will at least take the, you know, sort of blunt that a little bit. And, uh, so we really have we 00:53:42
honestly have the parking We said we have. 00:53:47
Uh, and the last thing I want to talk about is, umm, I'm no concerned about the, uh, the DRC is the final arbiter of, uh, of some 00:53:53
of these plans and so forth. Umm. 00:53:59
In the past, it's in the City Council and you know, and all five members are, have been residents and newly elected and so forth. 00:54:06
Uh, we now have, uh, it's now one resident to six staff. If I did my math right, if I looked at, you know, the PRC makeup, umm, so 00:54:12
because you have your Planning Commission chair would be on there and the rest of staff and, and I think you guys are great. Tell 00:54:19
me, where else could snap the RDA board, the RDA director? 00:54:25
The redevelopment. Redevelopment agencies direct. Yes. Is that the mayor? Am I misunderstanding? No, that's the chair. Oh, that's 00:54:35
the chair. Sure. OK. 00:54:39
OK, so yeah, that's so, yeah. So that that's the reason. That's why anyway. And I've umm and also umm. 00:54:43
The staff are pretty beholden to the mayor, you know, she points. No. 00:54:50
OK, that's fast, but it's fast. Well, you also, I mean, that's true. Uh, uh, so, uh, but no, no, the marriage hires them. It just 00:54:55
doesn't point that she hires the staff. She appoints you guys. Yeah, yeah, that's the difference. Yeah. Thanks. So anyway, but the 00:55:02
long and short of it is I like just to I, I think I would like to keep as many residents, you know, all in the process as 00:55:09
possible. And so if, if it may be better for the Planning Commission to be the, you know. 00:55:17
Best, uh, you know, the, the proving body in that situation. Nothing wrong with the VRC looking at things and looking at and, and, 00:55:24
and maybe the step before that. I think the final approval ought to come back to the Planning Commission. Yeah, that's very 00:55:30
common. Anthony, do you want to, uh, provide some clarification as to the state code? 00:55:36
All right. So your question just to clarify, if you want to make you want to know if we can change it from DRC to a Planning 00:55:47
Commission, the DRC can stay on the chain, but the Planning Commission be the final approving body? 00:55:54
OK, so yeah, we have our we, we have our other planner, obviously the one who helped happy about this. Umm, state code is saying 00:56:02
the final plat for the one to umm, family units and townhomes. Umm, the final plat cannot be approved by the Planning Commission 00:56:10
or City Council. Oh, Planning Commission or City Council? Yeah. And so is that preliminary plat can be approved by the Planning 00:56:17
Commission, but not by the City Council. We'll have to go. So yeah, OK, that sounds better. So. 00:56:24
If I may, if I can, sure. Yeah. Umm, I have been doing planning stuff with different States and there was another state I worked 00:56:31
on that is rest of us and left of us that has very, very aggressive, uh, housing laws that even took it any kind of building 00:56:39
permit away from any kind of public body. What I think is a win from here, even though final plat can't be from public bodies like 00:56:46
this. 00:56:54
The preliminary plat can, and that's the 50% of the plan. That first 50% is when you get probably the best idea of what that 00:57:02
neighborhood or subdivision is gonna look like. That last 50% is ultimately the sausage. You know, that's your really intense 00:57:09
details that most of us are not equipped to answer. That's when you need people with engineering licenses to really dive into 00:57:16
that, to make sure it's meeting not just city codes but building. 00:57:24
And buyer codes and all of those items that first 50% which is covered in the preliminary plat will be during public hearings, 00:57:32
will be in during these public settings. And that's when you're gonna be getting things like how tall is the building, how many 00:57:38
parking spaces are there? What's this gonna look like? So I would take that as a win that we can still at least retain the 00:57:44
preliminary flat approvals in these public hearings because I think that's what. 00:57:50
That first 50% is what I believe 99% of the community is really gonna care about. 00:57:57
Oh, I'm sorry. And just to clarify that that's a great point, but I'm not seeing the state code code. So we can't have public 00:58:02
hearings attached to any, any planning process on the planning future side. So you can. OK. Thank you. Yeah, right. So 00:58:07
unfortunately even that even that that piece was removed, but it can be an action item in a public meeting. It can. Yeah. There we 00:58:12
go. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Thank you. 00:58:17
Alright. So what you're saying then is it's possible to have the Planning Commission be the final approving by for the preliminary 00:58:24
plat application process and that's that's what you have here and like I see because I look at the shorts, OK. 00:58:30
All right. Well, I appreciate the clarification. 00:58:37
Sorry, sorry for that. Thank you for your service. 00:58:41
OK, motion to close the public especially. 00:58:52
Do you have a second, second all in favor? All right. OK. 00:58:56
Umm, send me that. At this point do do we on Commission have any more questions or? 00:59:04
I, I have a, a comment on one of them for the certificate of occupancy. Umm, you know, they, they've taken away a lot of our 00:59:11
enforcement capability there. And I know there's gonna be continue to be situations where you're not gonna have landscaping put in 00:59:17
right away, but you're gonna have developers, the one that get additional permits. But it makes sense. Tie it too, I guess wanna 00:59:23
make it very clear that when you do the review occupancy. 00:59:29
It identifies if there's non compliance and then defines any ongoing fines go to the developer on record for that permit and never 00:59:36
the homeowner until the developer. 00:59:42
On this other one, and then we have to account for scenarios of like in the winter, sometimes you can't do final landscaping 01:00:17
because of weather or winter. And that would be a separate. Essentially, if you want another permit, you know, you agree to 01:00:22
whatever this agreement is, but it it puts it firmly on the developer Dimitrios obligations. Because I remember when we were 01:00:27
building this flagship, we never had a final burn put in. We moved in in January. So we had a lot of issues with with the ground 01:00:33
water. 01:00:38
Final grading wasn't, you know, done appropriately until they landscaped. We had water coming into the wells and and we literally 01:00:44
we had to spend 6 months to convince them that you never even put the bourbon. They thought, no, we did it and you know, it just 01:00:48
washed away that final landscaping those aspects. 01:00:53
Yeah, I think it's important to account for it and make it that they have to do it and we don't put any burden on the occupants 01:00:59
that they stole the properties. 01:01:03
How we're works for training in Utah is umm, the code enforcement always have to go to the property owner owner. And so Jamie is 01:01:10
gonna actually come and do a, do a training with us. Umm, he's gonna do like the open meetings law training and then umm, just 01:01:15
have general training. So I think sort of course it might be a really good one that we can dig in with them and then we we can 01:01:21
meet with them too umm, and see because. 01:01:27
To, to your point, I, I agree, I mean, it, it feels like the developer is the one kind of get getting, getting away with an 01:01:34
obligation. And so it'd be great if I could go back to them. But how it's set up right now is code enforcement always has to go to 01:01:40
the property owner instead trying to kind of kinda kinda find, umm, you know, a, a, a way that we could put that obligation on the 01:01:47
developer. But right now we're supposed to go through the, the property. So we, we'd have to kind of find, yeah, some solutions. 01:01:54
Well, unfortunately the state law is written with that intent. Make it as easy as possible fill out. And so I get the reason 01:02:02
behind it because there clearly is a housing crisis and we want to be able to build homes for as many people as possible, but we 01:02:08
want to make sure we're doing it responsibly. One of the potential solutions, and this is something I would just ask our city 01:02:14
attorney to look at the legality of it is. 01:02:20
One of the ways to make sure the developers ultimately on the hook is. 01:02:27
Uh, putting liens on the property, which could of course not usually does that, the very last resort step, but you can record a 01:02:32
notice of intent to file a lien that ultimately doesn't have a whole lot of meat to it, but it scares the heebie jeebies out of 01:02:39
anyone trying to sell a property if there's any kind of flag that says there's a notice of intent to file a lien. And so I've 01:02:46
asked our city attorney to check to see if that's even an option. I think that is. 01:02:54
It it could be considered fairly extreme and ultimately that's not our decision, but I'd like to just explore that as a 01:03:02
possibility. I think I could get to Chris. 01:03:05
Point as well and I we we do uh notices of non compliance umm and we, we've done that quite a bit and so umm yeah what what let's 01:03:10
explore something that's typed in the title yeah because something that's tied to the title would get developers attention a bit 01:03:17
more that sometimes would take out what we find is there's good intentions get as many units as possible on board as soon as 01:03:24
possible, but then they they don't think through like these these loan ramifications so umm. 01:03:31
I would say that the team had let's get them occupied. But we want builders here that are gonna finish what they're building. 01:03:40
Absolutely. 01:03:43
I, I like the idea if then maybe that is a way we can, we can talk to Jamie on that. But if, you know, previous lots in that same 01:03:48
subdivision don't have their landscaping, can we then hold up to future ones? I we, we can, we can check on that and see if that's 01:03:54
possible because that, that, that could be a really or the, or like a, yeah, a notice of intent or umm, not non conformist or 01:04:00
something, something like that. 01:04:06
Or it triggers an immediate reassessment of value of your subdivision loss. I don't know, sorry. 01:04:13
You lose you, you, you lose to us every time, you know. 01:04:20
Just keep dropping so. 01:04:25
So good. Yeah, we, we, we heard you guys. Well, we'll make sure that's a, that's a topic that that gets addressed with the 01:04:27
attorney. We, we can find a good road map to address those issues. 01:04:31
The fact that people laughed at that, it tells us we all know way too much about development. 01:04:38
OK. OK. Anything else? 01:04:49
Unless there's other discussion, I'd have to make a motion. 01:04:55
Uh, I think we're ready. I think all my questions were brought up and answered, so yeah. 01:04:58
OK, so I'll, I'll, I'll move to the forward a positive recommendation to the City Council for the ordinances presented. Uh 01:05:05
202412024220243 as presented by staff. UMM, and I'm so sorry for those taking minutes with the only amendment being to please 01:05:12
follow up with the attorney based off the items we discussed, clarifying the RDA and putting the full name of the redevelopment 01:05:20
agency, umm, and any of the other items that we discussed. 01:05:27
Meaning that the the follow up line. 01:05:35
OK. Do we have a second? Second. OK, all in favor. 01:05:38
We'll do our best. Chris Bramwell. Bye. Kate. And I, OK. I, Brad and I, Nathan, I thank you. 01:05:43
What looks like we vote in favor of forwarding. And that brings us to item 4, our work session. Uh. 01:05:56
Reception for all right Item 4.1. Technology elements of the general plan. 01:06:06
Uh, looks like Morgan will leave a discussion with us regarding amendments to the technology element to the general plan. It looks 01:06:12
like there's some work done on the security aspect with this here. Yeah, a little bit. So as part of the general plan, So, umm, 01:06:20
we, we know that, umm, privacy and personal information and security of, of the, of that information is, is really important to 01:06:27
the public. I heard that quite a bit. Uh, if you remember, we worked with SRT Labs, Umm, they're a group that, that was. 01:06:34
Having given license plate data and, and we're, we're seeing some of that with structured parking, Umm, and, and also if there's 01:07:12
like security cameras, do people want, want, you know, uh, a file save somewhere showing, showing with their face. And you know, 01:07:18
like those are, those are real concerns that, that, umm, that, that people have. 01:07:23
And umm, and those concerns that the city has as well, umm, part part of like the, the technology stuff that we talked about in 01:07:31
the past is more of umm, kind of in the realm of like, how do we, umm, how do we have better water conservation? Uh, we've gone 01:07:38
through a drought, you know, umm, I think we're may technically still be in the drought. Umm, and so today's not a good yes. I 01:07:44
just know I've been, I've been seeing a lot so. 01:07:51
I'm just, I'm loving all the avocado. Umm but umm. 01:07:59
Umm, you nominated umm commissioner Brownwell, umm, to assist, not airport. He's been, umm, real, really great and is, I'd say 01:09:04
the, the state expert, if I, if I can say that or not. Umm, but he's, uh, he, he's been fantastic in helping us kind of understand 01:09:11
umm, the, the, this industry, uh, typically not an issue that is that a city planner tackles umm, and so having his expertise has 01:09:18
been invaluable. So just kind of run through these and I could just kind of read them out. Umm, in goal 2 adding. 01:09:26
Adopting secure communication channels and assuring to exchange thanks change with sensitive information called established 01:10:04
privacy guidelines and regulations and striving forward and new implemented security measures to stay XR sensitive data as part of 01:10:11
a techno technological advancements, thereby fostering public trust and confidence. Strategy 5. Ensure that all current and future 01:10:19
city contracts include measures that protect sense of data and dispose of it properly. And then there's a 610. 01:10:26
Uh, sorry. 01:10:34
Umm, strategy 6 update forms on which personal information is collected to ensure a notice of purpose and use of that information 01:10:39
and to ensure use of the information is limited to those purposes and uses. And so this will provide us kind of those general 01:10:45
guidelines. I, I would assume that if the city this, this would also kind of help the city if they were to establish a more 01:10:52
robust, umm, privacy policy, umm. 01:10:58
That you know that, that, that, that that would kind of be kind of the, the next step, Umm, but this will provide us just good 01:11:05
general plan type guidance as we do city planning. If we're looking at like smart technologies or things that we can implement to, 01:11:10
to provide. 01:11:14
Using there's no way we could manage that, but as we partner with these entities, they'll have other strategies that they 01:12:20
integrate together with what we're doing to ensure that regardless of who's collecting the data, you know, if you come to 01:12:24
Vineyard, you, you should be confident that you can just, you know, experience your whatever you wanna do here and you're not 01:12:29
being surveilled. 01:12:33
So you have a drone overhead that follows every other. 01:12:39
Drones nowadays, like log on to you and they call you. Yeah. I don't see if they were doing that. 01:12:44
Umm. 01:12:52
Any comment specialist additions? I, I, I just wanna say, umm, when it comes to the general plan, I think this is well written. 01:12:53
Uh, I think these strategies make sense. Umm, the goals and strategies are the overarching. Why do we do what we do? The nitty 01:13:01
gritty of how it's established that is hours and hours and hours of work modifying the municipal code and other city policies in 01:13:08
order to enact it. But when it comes to setting us in the right direction, which is what the purpose of the. 01:13:16
Our plan is I think this does a great job. 01:13:23
Yeah. I mean, that was my comment. This is as I read through this and as you went through it, we talked about it. Yeah, I love the 01:13:27
overall vision, but it has to, you know, carry through all of our current, so it says current and future city contracts. So I 01:13:34
understand the future contracts will be more sensitive to holding like looking through the initial contract or whatever it is and 01:13:41
making sure the privacy. 01:13:47
Uh, measures are taken, but I think we also need to go back and look at how we're currently using data, what's being done and, and 01:13:55
shoring up that. 01:14:00
To come in to compliance with it so is there any kind of our discussion too like just the disposal of information like don't don't 01:14:06
hold on people's private data if you don't need it like you know right yeah retention policy is good yeah uh OK I think this is on 01:14:12
for for workshops you're welcome our next steps to let you know would be to take this to City Council for a work session and come 01:14:18
back to you for a public hearing and then the account of the public hearing and hopefully adoption. So we got a couple months this 01:14:24
doesn't require any formal. 01:14:30
No, no, not, not that. I just wanted to get your comments. Umm. And yeah, you're welcome to on strategy three, there is one change 01:14:36
we take to maximize the sharing of data. Usually you wanna minimize, you wanna use as as like use it for the purpose of use, but 01:14:44
minimize the amount of sharing of personal data you're doing. So I, I, I read that use technology to maximize transparency. 01:14:52
And how decisions are being made. That's how I read that one with with the original language. OK. 01:15:01
I think that makes sense. Yeah, OK. Yeah, because it's decision making processes to maximize the sharing of information because I 01:15:08
hate it when a decision is made and I'm like, oh, what about your meeting questions? This is saying there is an 80 backroom. Yes, 01:15:15
it is public. By adopting secure communication channels and ensuring the exchange of sensitive information follows established 01:15:22
privacy guidelines. I think that's the way of saying share absolutely everything that is appropriate to share. 01:15:29
If there are things that are happening within closed sessions that are legally required to be closed sessions, then establish why 01:15:36
they're closed. So have transparency of the process, of the technology the procedures facilitate, but not on private, yeah, but 01:15:41
not of the information. 01:15:45
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we, we can, we'll play around with languages and bring that back. OK. Could you repeat the exact change that you 01:15:50
are recommending so I can know it? I, I didn't recommend any exact change. Yeah, umm, it was just clarifying what the intent of 01:15:57
Strategy 3 was, which I believe was to encourage transparency in any information or data that the decision making bodies were 01:16:03
using to make that decision. 01:16:10
Thank you. That's not it. 01:16:17
OK, cool. Alright. David had his hand raised. You're welcome. Please do. 01:16:19
Real quick on strategy 5 is that also includes that we would, uh, the contractors as well as future contracts would, uh, protect 01:16:31
is that, is that wording strong enough to make sure that's included or, or we need to specify that in particular? Uh, because this 01:16:38
is not code, it doesn't have to be so specific. So this is a guideline. No, I understand. 01:16:46
Well, one of the guidelines you wanna have is the contractors will be our, you know, our Co, you know, whatever standards we have 01:16:55
in place, honestly, the standards won't begin. This document don't just nitty gritty as you spoke out, it was a facility. It would 01:17:01
be good to indicate, I think that we want them to abide by that. Mm-hmm. 01:17:07
State code for any governency, anybody that you share personal information with, umm, they're supposed to abide by, you know, 01:17:14
privacy and security, tractual obligations. So theoretically, yeah, they would have to do it. But I think this gets down to the 01:17:20
nitty gritty of implementation of this is setting that big picture of the other goal is absolutely contractors that are like IT 01:17:26
contractors. Like that's the easy one, but like the concept of an actual contractor building stuff like with the the Forge 01:17:32
project, that's much more complex. 01:17:38
And I think state code will catch up over the next few years, but Vineyard cares enough to at least have the discussion and and 01:18:14
our our developers here seem more than open to have that discussion as well. 01:18:19
Yeah, I, I, I think we're hearing what you're saying is let's make sure it is fully encompassing of everything. Umm, and you could 01:18:26
bold the word all. I, I, I think ensure all contracts. But the thing that's even the contract I signed to get a library card. I 01:18:34
want to make sure the stuff that's private. If you need my address, I don't want everyone to know my address. We need to make sure 01:18:41
we are protecting that sense of data between my kids getting a library card or between. 01:18:48
Builder XYZ buying a lot of land that was originally owned by the city. Making sure. 01:18:56
All that is protected. 01:19:01
Yeah, I guess I'm suggesting that the wording VS. So Reed ensures that all current attitude city contracts and contractors include 01:19:04
measures that protect sensitive data to solve it properly. OK, I mean, that's that. 01:19:11
A terrible thing to add. And the contractor. Thank you. I can be on the staff report. Yeah. 01:19:20
I will. I will say is that I spent a few years working in marketing and now I'm in IT and I. 01:19:27
As value protection of data and so moving forward, that's the high priority for me as well. 01:19:33
Because I've seen what they can do with it. Yeah, but my favorite? 01:19:41
It is umm. 01:19:46
OK, yeah. So there's no action needed and we'll umm, well, yeah, we'll, we'll take a Thomas and we'll make some adjustments and 01:19:49
we'll work session next with City Council public hearing with you and then back to City Council public hearing, OK. 01:19:55
Alright, umm, if that's it then. 01:20:03
That brings us to Commission Members reports and expect a discussion disclosure. 01:20:06
Anybody else I should have something to say What you did? This was umm, I'll start. Mine is really brief. Umm, I just wanted to 01:20:14
say last week I met with city staff, uh, just to get more well accustomed and acclimated to what this role is, better 01:20:20
understanding of it all, and it was a good day. 01:20:27
Excellent. 01:20:35
Over here. 01:20:37
Yeah, I was also a member Great. Umm, and I think just moving forward for me, just getting caught up. I'm looking forward to, they 01:20:39
mentioned, uh, Jamie will come in. Will that be in a Planning Commission meeting where he'll give the training, the open meetings 01:20:45
training, which I'm looking forward to becoming more familiar with, with the roles and responsibilities and what, how I can 01:20:51
contribute on this Commission and then umm. 01:20:57
Yeah, just moving forward the the required education and and training that that I need to go through and that that we all need to 01:21:05
do on the yearly basis. So, yeah, uh. 01:21:10
That's it for me and there, there are some, uh, good trainings coming up. Umm, there's the, umm, bike summit and that, that's 01:21:15
probably the fun one. You can see all the bike initiatives that they have coming up and trying to look up the date on that. And 01:21:21
then the other is the Utah APA. That's the general planning one that that was a lot of fun. It'll be in Cedar City and we, we 01:21:27
budgeted to, to send who, whoever wants to go. Umm, we understand that tip goes like right in the week. So umm, so that what is 01:21:33
that? 01:21:39
May 31st oh last year yeah when you get the date for the bikes, I'm gonna let you know. Do you wanna look at you type yeah, I 01:21:46
think that's a may umm about the Cedar City. It's a good time of year go down and you know don't go to conference. It'll be a 01:21:52
really good one. If you wanna go let us know We'll uh we did budget for it so we can pay for travel for your hotel and your your 01:21:59
ticket. I I expect PTO for this year. I can actually go yeah that'll be fine yeah. 01:22:06
May, May 8th through the 10th. So, uh. 01:22:14
And, uh, typically there's, uh, uh. 01:22:19
So, so they'll have like a, a conference deal at the hotel or whatnot, but you wanna just let, uh, let cash know, umm, if you're, 01:22:22
if you're interested in going and we'll, we'll get you signed up and we'll, we'll get your hotel unless you wanna stay somewhere 01:22:28
really Swank or something like that. 01:22:33
So I don't know what the budget date or whatever. So really nice. It's under the, uh, the overpass. 01:22:39
You're gonna you're gonna love it, but Cedar City, bring your mountain bike, honestly. So after the conference is always fun. Just 01:22:48
do whatever the fun stuff is around town. Cool. Umm, thank you. Awesome. 01:22:54
Is there anything else for you? So good. All right. And in that case, I will say that meeting is adjourned. We will see you in two 01:23:02
weeks. 01:23:07
That was much better than the last. 01:23:16
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