All right. 00:00:08
Welcome everyone. Thank you for being here tonight. Today is August 30th, 2023 and the time is 6:06 PM. 00:00:08
This is a great time to your cell phones and. 00:00:17
As we move into actually what we'll do before we do that is that we will start with a Pledge of Allegiance and a invocation by 00:00:20
Council member sequentis. 00:00:26
Upcrapers. 00:00:33
Our dear, kind Heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this day. We are grateful for the wonderful community we have and for 00:00:38
all the voices. 00:00:41
That we have and please bless us, help us know how to work together, how to listen respectfully and how to find common ground, and 00:00:45
please bless us as a council that. 00:00:50
Make decisions that will best help the future of our city. 00:00:56
Please bless our staff and their families and help them know how much we appreciate their service and. 00:01:00
Please bless those in need. Please bless those who are seeking. 00:01:07
Extra support that we can know how to serve them, and they are so very grateful for all of our many blessings. And we say things 00:01:11
in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. All right. 00:01:15
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:01:22
indivisible, with. 00:01:29
All right. We have been working on our Transportation Master Plan and we have a work session so that we can kind of discuss with 00:01:38
the council. I believe it already went to the Planning Commission. 00:01:44
And now we're going to discuss with the council and make sure that we are on the right track. And Josh, you're going to be 00:01:50
presenting today and he is here with Brian Houses well. So thank you both for being here. Looking forward to hearing the latest 00:01:54
update. 00:01:59
Awesome. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you Council. We're excited to be here to give an update on the plan. 00:02:05
We've completed, I would say, the first phase of our plan and we have some kind of preliminary results to talk about tonight. 00:02:11
We're looking for your feedback and your your questions and thoughts to make sure. 00:02:19
Doing the right steps on this plan. So we have some slides to talk through. If you have any questions as we go, feel free to ask 00:02:24
those. 00:02:28
And we'll have time at the end for questions as well, if you have any. 00:02:32
Of course, I've got Ryan with me here and we're happy to answer those questions. 00:02:36
So just to, I think many of you have seen this information, some of this information before in our public outreach, but to kind of 00:02:42
rehash some of this. 00:02:46
We're working on technically kind of four different deliverables or plans here that are all kind of part of the same package. One 00:02:50
is a transportation master plan. 00:02:54
Where we look at the future demands and needs for all the multimodal transportation. 00:02:59
Projections for the future within the city. 00:03:05
That leads us into a capital facilities plan, which helps us identify costs of those projects. 00:03:08
That leads us into an impact fee facilities plan and impacts the analysis where we take those projects. 00:03:13
And we identify how much, how much of the cost of those projects can be paid for with impact fees. 00:03:19
Due to new development coming in the city. So in a nutshell, that's kind of what we're working on as part of this plan. 00:03:26
So big picture we wanted to talk about so we all understand kind of what tools that the city has to help plan for development in 00:03:33
the city. 00:03:37
You have a general plan that identifies city goals and land uses and so we take that and that's where we're using to work on the 00:03:42
Transportation Master Plan based on land uses and those the location of land uses. 00:03:48
You know, kind of big picture. What what? What size of roads do we need? How many lanes do we need on each Rd. 00:03:56
And and what what's the overall grid network for the city? 00:04:02
After we're done with this plan, there will be. 00:04:06
Times where you'll have the opportunity to plan for development. That would be for monthly traffic impact studies. 00:04:09
Where development comes in and you are able to identify more at a micro level, what improvements are needed at intersections as 00:04:15
far as intersection control turn lanes? 00:04:20
And so while this plan is more big picture, you will have opportunity down the line with developments as they come into identify 00:04:26
intersection improvements more specifically. 00:04:30
So the reason we're looking at this now, it's been a very long time since we've had a transportation plan completed in the city at 00:04:38
16 years approximately. And a lot has changed in vineyards since then, of course. 00:04:44
There's a lot of development that's being proposed. Of course, with with the downtown, there's projects like the Vineyard 00:04:50
Connector that's being worked on right now. 00:04:54
And also MAG they just adopted their their new regional transportation plan that identifies regional project. 00:04:59
So it's a good time to update that to build off of Mag's work and identify within the city. 00:05:06
What other projects are needed to help transportation? 00:05:12
This is not just about cars. It's about transit and walking and biking. You have a great active transportation plan that's been 00:05:16
adopted recently. So we're going to build off of that. 00:05:21
And well, tonight, a lot of what we'll talk about will be about vehicles. In future meetings, we'll talk more about transit, 00:05:26
walking and biking. 00:05:31
The reason that tonight is focused on vehicles primarily is that that's what takes the longest on these plans is kind of that 00:05:36
analysis of future projections of vehicles. 00:05:40
And. 00:05:45
That's kind of what the focus will be tonight alone so. 00:05:47
So some of the purpose and goals we've identified with city staff and through the first phase of this project was that. 00:05:52
We want to build off of the city's slogan of stay connected, right? That's that's what transportation is all about. 00:05:58
We want to make sure that everybody has access to each mode of transportation that they can get to, transit they can get to. 00:06:03
That they can drive, they can walk, they can. 00:06:11
And that's kind of what we're focused on throughout this whole. 00:06:14
So we're going to talk about a few, a few slides here on existing conditions of how things are today and then we'll dive into the 00:06:20
future conditions of what we're seeing so far. 00:06:25
In a in a master plan, a big part of it is identifying the functional classification of roads, and so you have a wide range of Rd. 00:06:31
types from local to collector to arterial. 00:06:37
Arterial arterial roads have more mobility and less access allowed to them. Collectors have a have a mix right where you might 00:06:43
have more access and a little bit less mobility than an arterial. 00:06:49
And then you have local roads where the focus is slow, speeds access to neighborhoods or. 00:06:56
Two houses. 00:07:02
And So what we're doing is we've identified what was classified previously in previous plans. 00:07:04
And that's what you see in the map on the on the right there. We're going to take this map and update it to make sure we have a 00:07:10
good grid network, grid network established in the city. 00:07:14
We're going to try to match Mags recommendation. 00:07:19
To have collectors every half mile and arterials every mile essentially is what we're going to do. So we're going to expand this. 00:07:22
We can have future development to the north and elsewhere to make sure that grid network continues to build. 00:07:28
Like I said, the plan is more macro level. It's this big picture. 00:07:37
So we don't look a lot, we don't look at a lot of the intersections, but we will look at potential locations for signalization 00:07:42
traffic sign. 00:07:46
Or maybe roundabouts. 00:07:50
At the diagram on the left is. 00:07:52
It's to depict for you kind of a progression of an intersection how if it's low volume you might have a two way stop and then it 00:07:54
goes to an always stop if needed. 00:07:59
Then maybe some if they get busy enough. Could be a roundabout, could be a traffic signal, that'll be. 00:08:05
You know not all intersections get to that point, of course, but the goal of the plan will be to say this intersection. 00:08:12
Is ideal for a future signal if warranted. You know, that's kind of what we're looking at here. 00:08:20
Umm. 00:08:27
Level of service is maybe a term you've heard before on other other traffic studies. 00:08:28
It's a term we use to describe congestion on a Rd. 00:08:33
It's a grade of A through F where A is free flow of speeds and no congestion. 00:08:36
Down to F which is force flows. Then you stop and go traffic. 00:08:43
So what we look at in this plan is how roads look today level of service wise and how they're going to look in the future. 00:08:47
What we've talked about with city staff is. 00:08:55
Setting a threshold for an acceptable level of service. Every community defines that on their own. Generally the typical that you 00:08:58
see for example U dot standard is LOSD or better. So a through D is acceptable. 00:09:05
And that is pretty typical throughout the state as LSD or better. 00:09:12
Some communities that are more. 00:09:15
They'll choose Los C or better as their standard. Some cities have a mix where they say on collectors we want C or better and 00:09:18
Arterioles want D or better. So to that end that's kind of what we've done with here in the city as a proposal in the plan is. 00:09:26
Arterials D or better are acceptable. Collectors C are better acceptable and local B are better. BA or B is acceptable. 00:09:33
The reason we kind of set it up that way is to make sure that on our local roads we. 00:09:43
We we did talk about a different downtown threshold as well, knowing that the plan there is to make it very walkable with slow, 00:09:53
slow moving vehicles, you know and and and making sure we don't have too wide of cross sections to make sure. 00:10:01
Pedestrian crossing locations are. 00:10:08
And so that's why we've set a different threshold for the downtown in this plan so far, where C or better would be acceptable for 00:10:11
local, but then E or better is acceptable for collectors and arterials. And that that is common that you'll see in an urbanized 00:10:16
area that sometimes they go to ear better. 00:10:21
So. 00:10:26
So I have a quick question about that. So you're saying. 00:10:31
Can you go back? 00:10:36
So you're saying that right now if we compare this to like 400 S? 00:10:38
Thank you neither. 00:10:45
Do you know the road I'm talking about? Yeah, that would be like a CRD. 00:10:46
When you're saying that we might rank what is down? 00:10:50
Downtown as an. 00:10:55
To create slower movement. Is that what I'm understanding? 00:10:58
Yeah, that's basically it. The threshold at 400 S and Geneva would be. 00:11:03
Deer better because that is a UDOT facility, so we would still keep it. Deer better threshold. 00:11:09
But the threshold of acceptability in the downtown would be, say he as an example, though, the intersection of Main Street and 00:11:15
Vineyard Connector or the downtown Connects. 00:11:20
That that threshold is still D because it's U dot still. So it's basically the internal roads of the downtown, not not the 00:11:25
exterior roads. 00:11:29
If that makes sense. 00:11:34
OK. So as far as level of service on a road based segment, we simplify it to look at it from a volume to capacity ratio. 00:11:38
So we have given 2 examples of capacities we look at which would be that would represent the threshold between E and. 00:11:47
Where a three lane Rd. which is 1 lane per direction with the middle turn lane. Generally that can handle up to 18,000. The 00:11:54
acceptable level is less than that of course to get to say AD or AC level. 00:12:00
A5 lane arterial can be up to about 37,000 cars. 00:12:07
But the acceptable level is less than that. But that is kind of the absolute kind of maximum that we look at, just kind of to give 00:12:11
you those kind of numbers in your mind. 00:12:15
For intersections, it's different. It's based on peak hour delay, just so. 00:12:20
OK, so now these are the the results we've gotten for existing conditions. 00:12:25
So what we've done knowing that veneer connector is almost it's being worked on now and at 1600 N is near completion. 00:12:30
We've we've accounted for those being complete as part of our existing conditions. 00:12:39
Knowing that by the time this is adopted, this plan is adopted later this year, those will be in place, just so you know. 00:12:43
So what you see here, we try to color the roads based on the level of service grade essentially. So just a couple spots to point 00:12:50
out, you can see that laser pointer. 00:12:55
Sorry. So a couple spots of congestion and roadway segment wise that we're looking at would be Vineyard Connector on 800 N. 00:13:03
They have, UDOT of course made some changes to the lanes there, which I think has helped quite a bit, but of course it still 00:13:12
congested at times. 00:13:15
But that's kind of the main segment that's congested, we would say during that peak, during the peak times. 00:13:20
Center St. you can see is a yellow color which would be Los. 00:13:26
Which is still acceptable, of course, but we've heard in the public input that people saw there's congestion there, of course. So 00:13:30
we recognize there's some. 00:13:34
Though from a roadway segment perspective, it's still acceptable. 00:13:38
We've also looked at the intersection level of service at several locations, so. 00:13:43
You can see along Geneva Rd. that there are several locations that. 00:13:47
Poor condition currently. 00:13:52
One thing we did hear from UDOT is that once the railroad. 00:13:54
Is consolidated in that area. They have plans to make some significant improvements along Geneva Rd. so that should help a lot. 00:13:58
One more I'll point out here is 600 N and Main St. 00:14:07
We heard we heard a lot about this in our public outreach. 00:14:11
How it's very difficult to turn left out onto Main Street from 600 N and we we we get that. So that that would be considered a 00:14:15
level of service staff condition and so that's something we would look at in the plan to say what options do we have to improve 00:14:20
that intersection. 00:14:24
So our public input, just as a summary, I know several of you were involved in that and we appreciate that. We had a Facebook Live 00:14:32
event on April. 00:14:36
Public Open House On April 25th we did an online survey. We got 131 responses which. 00:14:40
We felt pretty proud of that, even though we helped for more I guess, but we were glad for all the input we got. 00:14:48
Here are some of the common input we got from the public that we heard a lot. Once again, 600 N how it's congested during peak 00:14:55
hours. 00:14:59
People talk about crosswalks to cross Main Street and I know this team and his group, they're already working on, you know that 00:15:04
improvement there potentially that. So that's great. 00:15:08
People talk about Vineyard Connector, how it's congested. That was kind of pre lane adjustment. So I think it's improved a little 00:15:14
bit. 00:15:17
And then, you know, Geneva Rd. people thought, thought should there be another connection to Vineyard? 00:15:22
Which of course, has been planned once the railroad is consolidated. 00:15:28
Cemetery and Mill Rd. Which you see on the right here, people. 00:15:33
Recognize that this is congested during peak hours and that's that's where we showed a level of service F at Geneva Rd. during 00:15:38
peak hours. So we recognize that too. We'll talk about improvements. 00:15:43
And then just safety concerns in general for more crosswalks and pedestrian safety. 00:15:49
So that's what we heard and we really appreciate all the public public input. 00:15:53
OK. So now that we have the existing conditions identified, we're working on our future conditions, the 2033 condition. 00:16:00
We have to use that 10 year horizon to 2033 for impact fees. That's the requirement by by state code. 00:16:07
2050 will be the ultimate year we look at for future growth to see what's needed by 2050. 00:16:14
We've taken Mag's model that they use to protect traffic. 00:16:20
And we made sure that it accounts for the known developments within vineyards. So you can see the list here. I won't go through 00:16:24
that, but. 00:16:28
In general, we've made sure that the land uses proposed for these projects is accounted for in the model. 00:16:32
So here we're going to talk about the future level of service that we're seeing so far. 00:16:40
So in a 2033 condition. 00:16:45
With the development that's anticipated by that point, you can see here that 800 norms or vineyard connector we're showing it 00:16:47
being in a red condition which would which would be unacceptable. 00:16:53
That is AU dot Rd. But of course in this plan we can give you some direction and suggestions to say what needs to go there. 00:16:59
Center St. we're showing some congestion as well, and throughout the city you can see there's a few roads that are kind of in the 00:17:07
yellow LOSC color. 00:17:12
Approaching congest. 00:17:17
And so those are things we'll look at, especially with the unacceptable levels of service. We're going to look at projects for 00:17:20
those. 00:17:23
We have a draft list we'll show you in just a minute of potential projects to look at. Do you know what causes the congestion? 00:17:26
Mill Rd. It's yellow. Yellow. Is it the two red areas that cause the traffic or? 00:17:33
The expansion of the road or. 00:17:41
We don't know that exactly yet. I think it's the development in general. And like I said, we have a whole list of developments 00:17:45
we've included. So part of it could be the downtown of traffic going to Mill Rd. from there to the commercial maybe. 00:17:51
The forge area we've looked at. So I think it's all those combined, just increase that volume a little bit to. 00:17:58
Los C condition. 00:18:05
So overall, So what we see on Mill Rd. it's. 00:18:08
It's a large facility already of five lanes, right? And so it does have a lot of capacity to take on more if needed. 00:18:12
But yeah, that's kind of what we're seeing so far. 00:18:19
If we jump to the 2050 condition, you can see we have a little bit more red and orange throughout the system. 00:18:24
On Vineyard connector we're showing this in red with that volume increasing. 00:18:31
Just for reference, you can see here we have about 57,000 cars a day. That would be equivalent to what what A7 lane Rd. could 00:18:38
carry three lanes per direction with a middle turn lane. Just so you kind of understand that. 00:18:44
You can see here that we do have Bill going up in the kind of the orange and red area here as well. 00:18:52
So that's something we can look at as far as future future projects. 00:18:58
Center St. Still some congestion there. 00:19:02
And then Vineyard Connector going to the north as well. 00:19:05
Some congestion in the downtown and. 00:19:09
So some of that would require of course some improvements in, you know maybe a little bit wider cross sections on the key roads 00:19:12
that go through the downtown essentially so. 00:19:17
So now I'll just kind of go through a list of drafts, potential projects we've looked at. 00:19:24
What we've assumed here is that the mag projects are already taken into account. They're already taken care of because Mac has 00:19:29
funding allocated for those projects. 00:19:33
What we're looking at is other projects that can be done here. 00:19:38
This includes projects for intersections and Rd. roadway projects as well. 00:19:41
And we try to phase them by these three different years, 20232033 and 2050, just so you know. 00:19:46
So if you can't tell, it is in draft format. But we we we have this list to give you an idea of what we're seeing so far. 00:19:54
The phase one would be immediate needs to fix today's. 00:20:02
Three of those projects are Geneva Rd. Intersection projects, which like I said, U dot already has plans to improve those. 00:20:06
The rail issue is resolved and they can potentially do some widening or whatever it may be there. 00:20:14
600 N and Main Street. We listed the crosswalks that the city is already talking about and we were we might consider an 00:20:21
alternative intersection control. It's very tricky where it's placed with how close it is to Vineyard Connector. 00:20:27
But we're going to look at options of what we could do to improve things there. 00:20:33
Short term needs will be kind of the 2033 window. 00:20:38
And so Vineyard connector between Main Street and Geneva Rd. we show we need to go to 5 lanes approximately through there. 00:20:41
Center St. of Mill, Rd. Increasing the capacity of that intersection and so. 00:20:49
We'll dive into more details in the plan itself of potential things that could be done there. There's signal timing that could be 00:20:55
done. 00:20:58
Reconfiguration as well, potentially there. 00:21:02
Long term needs of fit the 2050 window. 00:21:06
So you can see vineyard connector from 1200 N to the north city boundary. 00:21:09
That that's a U dot facility, but that would that would have to go to seven lanes based on the volumes we're seeing. 00:21:14
1600 N would have to go to five lanes. We're putting that here though. That is on the mag plan, just so you know that that is 00:21:20
actually a mag project to get 5 lines there too. 00:21:25
1200 N This is something that's been talked about of a connection. 00:21:30
From Vineyard Connector to Geneva Rd. That will go over the rail to connect the downtown to the UVU site and then to Geneva Rd. 00:21:35
So that would be an important project to take pressure off of Vineyard connector and other roads in the area of course. 00:21:44
Main Street we talked about just north of the of Interconnector, making sure that section is wide enough going into the downtown 00:21:52
to have enough capacity for the traffic. 00:21:56
Main Street and Vineyard Connect. 00:22:03
Increasing that intersection capacity. 00:22:05
And based on the volumes, it's possible we may need some sort of innovative intersection there. 00:22:08
There's several different types. I won't dive into those now, but some of. 00:22:14
Have left turns that are displaced or in other ways to increase the capacity there so. 00:22:21
Vineyard Connector east of there would go to seven lanes too, based on those volumes. 00:22:28
400 N Geneva Road and Mill Rd. Geneva Rd. Increasing that that intersection capacity as well. 00:22:32
And then 400 S between Vineyard Rd. and Geneva Rd. just southeast of the park, we see that as being needed to potentially go to 00:22:40
five lanes there. 00:22:44
And maybe looking at intersection improvements to make it easier for people to get off of Vineyard Rd. onto 400 S so. 00:22:49
Once again, this is the kind of the draft list we have. There's no order to this. I should have mentioned that we haven't. 00:22:56
Prioritize these at all, but that will come in the plan as we prioritize these. Any questions on any of those? 00:23:02
Is there it? Would it be OK if you sent this to the Council, this slide show? 00:23:10
For sure. 00:23:19
Is the 400. 00:23:20
Geneva Does that include the potential opportunity for an extension to go over the tracks at 400 N? 00:23:22
That connects into the other 400 N on the West side. Or is this just purely the intersection with Geneva and 400 that U dot is in 00:23:31
charge of? 00:23:36
We just talked about the intersection at this point, but we want to talk about possibility of extension. 00:23:41
Yeah. So we've we've talked about the intersection of Geneva for now. But like Brian was just saying, we're also discussing is 00:23:47
there a need to go over the. 00:23:52
To the West part of Vineyard too. So yeah, that's something we're talking about too, cuz that's something that we're working on 00:23:59
already. So it might be prudent to add it as part of the scope. Great. And we got a lot of good public input. People said, hey, 00:24:04
can we get a pedestrian crossing at least here? So that would be something, but also a vehicle connection could be talked about 00:24:09
too. So yeah. 00:24:14
Great. 00:24:20
So the next steps we have, we're going to talk. We're going to incorporate more active transportation and transit projects within 00:24:23
this. 00:24:26
To see, you know, not just Rd. projects, but how can we add better transit capacity to take cars off the road? 00:24:29
We're going to talk about future classification and the grid network, how to set the city up for success. 00:24:37
We'll look at general transportation guidelines for the city to use going forward to for access management. 00:24:43
Traffic impact stud. 00:24:50
We'll talk about cost of projects and then impact fees. 00:24:52
Our plan is to, you know, wrap this plan up by the end of this year. Still we were kind of delayed a little bit because MAG took a 00:24:56
while to adopt their plan, but now that that's done, we're full steam ahead planning to finish this year so. 00:25:02
Are there any more questions that you have for? 00:25:09
I just I've spent some time with residents in the Willows and in Westbrook and they are having a lot of issues at the intersection 00:25:14
of 170 N and the near Loop Rd. 00:25:19
There is a clubhouse there for that HOA, so there's a lot of traffic back and forth between. 00:25:25
Those communities all day, every day, I ever stood there and watched it. 00:25:32
And pedestrian traffic or. 00:25:38
Pedestrian traffic or vehicle or both? 00:25:41
Well, there's a lot of, yes, there's a lot of vehicle traffic making the pedestrian traffic really unsafe. And so there's a lot of 00:25:43
kids that are running across that road and parents and then of course alternate vehicles as well. And they wondered if in this. 00:25:50
Work that we're doing, if you might consider studying what it would look like to have. 00:25:57
Before we. 00:26:01
Got it. OK. 00:26:03
Do you want to speak to that Naseem or Yes, ma'am, so? 00:26:05
In regards to that particular intersection of the clubhouse and so such, we're installing a mid block crossing just north of that 00:26:10
where the travel makes a connection. However, we do recognize that. 00:26:16
The path of least resistance is at that intersection and when the mid block gets up, like it's like four or five blocks north of 00:26:21
there. So that's the one over that just north of the clubhouse on. 00:26:27
Yeah, I mean it. 00:26:36
It's a substantial wave. You're saying they should walk up there and then walk back down, Yeah. So I mean we're we're placing, we 00:26:39
have a mid block processing there where we'll be placing the flashes. However we will be reviewing the the feasibility of a four 00:26:46
way stop at that intersection especially now that we've lowered the speed limit down to 25 miles an hour, it was placing, placing. 00:26:54
Stop it Southside intersection there would be conducive to the street, the street composition, the speed level as well. So what 00:27:04
we'll do is we'll do that study outside this transportation Master plan as a transportation master plan will be finalized at the 00:27:11
end of the end of the calendar year. Where we'll do, we'll do. 00:27:17
Stop sign study separately so we can get that done faster. 00:27:24
So short answer is yes, ma'am. Long answer is it'll be outside this Transportation Master Plan. 00:27:30
OK can. 00:27:36
Umm, when you talk about the Center St. and Mill Rd. Intersection with the Center Street Bridge. 00:27:39
Is widening that road. 00:27:47
That bridge feasible? 00:27:48
I'm not sure why Dean is feasible and I'm not. I'm not sure it's needed to. What we're going to look at is, like I said, signal 00:27:51
timing, lane configuration. 00:27:55
Just how it's set up currently at that intersection. Do you think there could be some options to change how the lanes are 00:27:59
configured? I guess there. 00:28:03
Could you give like an example of an idea? I guess I'm having a hard time just like at the light instead of making it a turn only. 00:28:08
You somehow change that? Yeah, I'm trying to, I'm trying to remember what the configuration is there. I seem to recall as you come 00:28:15
down the bridge through the left turn lane and there's a lane that's a shared through right lane. So there could be options where 00:28:20
you make it a dedicated right lane and you give it more of a free flow around the corner basically. 00:28:26
That's, that's one example of what we could look at. So, yeah, thank you. Come to the microphone. 00:28:32
One of the things that we're looking at is. 00:28:41
As you come over on Center St. and you land on Mill Rd. part of the issue is over at Mill Road and Geneva Road. And so we're 00:28:45
backing up from that line. It backs up to the next light and then backs up and over. 00:28:50
And so it's really clearing that out and part of that issue is the train tracks and the rail crossing on the east side of the road 00:28:56
east of Geneva. 00:28:59
So Orem City has plans to widen that area and provide better East West flow and that will clean up some of that. But once that's 00:29:02
in and we'll plan for that, we'll look at what else we can do in addition to that. 00:29:08
Is do you know if Orms plans to widen that is like a 2033 or 2050 plan? 00:29:13
Do you have any idea? That's a great question. I think it's sooner than that. Yeah. So the money is actually available and it's 00:29:20
been available for some time. The issue is that they had been waiting for the railroad to be removed. 00:29:26
And so really it's when their portion of that agreement closes with the railroad and so the discussion that the state is going 00:29:33
really well. 00:29:38
As far as getting the railroad to come into compliance with faster timelines and meeting new dot schedule and things like that, 00:29:43
but that is the hold up that we've all been waiting for at this point. 00:29:49
The general timeline we heard as we started this process was maybe within umm. 00:29:57
Four to six years, I think it was that the rail would be consolidated and then Oren would act quickly soon after that to get it 00:30:02
completed. So my guess would be 20-30. 00:30:06
Approximately so. 00:30:12
That specific intersection I've had talks with Owen, City Engineer. In essence the. 00:30:14
Construction season after Ralph has been removed is when Orange City is willing to do it. So in essence that's a compliment, with 00:30:20
the mayor said that Orange City wants to spend money on it as soon as possible. 00:30:26
So the vineyard connect. 00:30:35
So presently, as showing your map, it comes to a screeching halt at the North End of the city. 00:30:38
And the rope from There's the disaster. 00:30:45
North. North of the city. 00:30:48
Plus, you've got the future overpass. 00:30:50
Which I don't know what the date is in dot. 00:30:54
Mountain Lions. 00:30:58
Yeah. 00:31:00
Are we coordinating that anyway? Yeah, yeah, we are. So we met with MAG as we started this process and it's UDOT. 00:31:01
And we've been, we've met with UDOT a few times since. So our plans are to keep meeting with them and talk to them about what 00:31:09
we're seeing. They're seeing the same things in their model and there there are plans. 00:31:13
Of course, north of the north of Vineyard City to carry Vineyard Connect. 00:31:18
Through Linden, Pleasant Grove, American. 00:31:22
And then even into to Lehigh where it would continue maybe as a westbound, a W connector out to Saratoga Springs. 00:31:26
So big picture, they are thinking of that connection going that direction too and then also how to tighten I-15 is what they're 00:31:33
looking at too. So. So it's down the road. Literally, literally down the road. Sure. Yeah. Well and the timeline for that, so. 00:31:42
Just for the public, Vineyard submitted that that's a priority for our long range planning back in October. And then unanimously 00:31:52
the mag body voted on it several times to prioritize that as moving forward and the mad body and the county. 00:32:00
Who's part of the Mac body? They are going to be submitting their priorities before the end of this month. 00:32:09
And then we'll see, I think probably around October if they did actually prioritize that. And then we'll see it come through the 00:32:17
legislature to see where that falls. So that's kind of our timeline. So we could potentially jump ahead on that stretch if it's 00:32:22
prioritized. 00:32:27
And the step, so yeah. 00:32:33
Are we connected? Is that 1600 in the north? We're connecting it. 00:32:37
Yeah, that would be the connection and they wouldn't do the full overpass during that time, they would do the one. 00:32:41
The one lane each way just because. 00:32:47
So expensive right now that that's their only acceptable pathway right now, but the alternate path could be if we are failing at 00:32:50
that 800 and then. 00:32:56
State. I mean the state is taking over 1600 in Orem. 00:33:02
They're pulling it. W if we get them to pull it all the way West with their state, then they'll connect out and they'll expand 00:33:07
that road and that could be another arterial for them. 00:33:11
Take traffic out. 00:33:17
Yeah, that's my concern if. 00:33:18
It looks pretty, but it's a dead end. 00:33:21
Right. It doesn't alleviate the congestion. 00:33:24
Lower down, right? Yeah. And I will say too, like the mayor said, they'll prioritize it. MAG will prioritize it in their program, 00:33:27
but it is in their plan currently as a 10 year project that I believe to. 00:33:34
At least have three lanes of Vineyard Connector going all the way through to American Fork, so 10 years is too late. 00:33:40
Yeah. I mean, we could go ahead and go speak about it. Maybe we all should go up there together. Yeah, let's go a couple times. 00:33:48
Yeah. 00:33:55
Great. Any more questions? Yeah. Can I ask for a comment? 00:33:57
So I'm going to take my lawyer hat off a little bit and put on the hat that I earned in 10 years with the US Department of 00:34:00
Transportation writing policy and. 00:34:05
As the general counsel for a few different transit agencies. 00:34:11
The. 00:34:14
So I want to talk a little bit about what this plan means for funding for the city. 00:34:16
Because it's really. 00:34:22
It's easy to get into kind of project specifics and what needs to be built now, but maybe the most important part of this is. 00:34:24
That they're establishing level of service standards that the city will use. 00:34:31
To assess both the performance of its transportation network, but also. 00:34:36
How we will be able to collect funds from? 00:34:42
Development to. 00:34:46
The transportation network. 00:34:48
Level of service is a measure that's been used for a long, long time, but it's it can be a little myopic. It looks at level of 00:34:51
service for vehicles. 00:34:55
For motorized vehicles, but it ignores a lot of other modes of transportation. 00:35:00
And it ignores the fact that streets are also public places. 00:35:06
And you have the need for improvements that support the public nature of your of your streets and your roadways. 00:35:10
And if your only measures level of service, you often can. 00:35:16
The other functions that the road serves and the other modes that the road serves. 00:35:20
So I would just encourage you to look at this to maybe expand. 00:35:25
Your metrics beyond level of service. 00:35:29
Cities throughout the country that have been doing what they call multimodal concurrency. 00:35:33
And what that means is they look at both. 00:35:38
Auto and freight, which is captured in the level of service, but then they also look at walking and biking and transit. 00:35:41
Assess the performance of the roadway relative to those modes of transportation. 00:35:50
And then you can assign values and metrics. 00:35:55
And investments that are needed to support those modes as well as the automotive modes. I know your presentations bifurcated, 00:35:58
right, that you're doing a later part on transit. 00:36:03
But I hope you won't lose the thought that the metric you establish and then the. 00:36:09
The math that you will use to support and to assess that metric ought to expand to be more than just. 00:36:15
The automobile traffic that's on the roads. 00:36:23
Thank you. 00:36:28
Yeah. Anything else? 00:36:29
So you said you're going to be moving into the next phase of this. If we have any commentary that we do want to see changed or we 00:36:32
have questions, for instance, I think I'm probably going to look a little bit further into. 00:36:38
The E range that went into the downtown to understand it better, things like that. 00:36:44
When should we approach you about this side as you're moving into the next side? 00:36:50
I don't see this. Let us know as soon as you can, OK? 00:36:55
Yeah, larger long term things we've got luck about so. 00:37:01
And we do have one more workshop planned for the City Council before the adoption. We'll come back for the adoption, but then 00:37:08
before then we'll come back but. 00:37:11
In the meantime, too, we're happy to talk about these. Can we go back to the map that shows the red on 800 N? So there's a couple 00:37:15
things that need to occur with this road. There's obviously going to be an expansion that widens it out at some point where 00:37:22
they're changing the way that it's shaped, but. 00:37:28
That road is carrying all of the traffic that's coming from Eagle Mountain and Saratoga, down the state road, into the Heber area 00:37:35
and down into the economic Center for Utah County. 00:37:41
Right at the intersection at 800 and Geneva. Is this a place where we would recommend to UDOT that we need some kind of underpass 00:37:48
or something at this point to carry that traffic so it does not 'cause stagnation and vineyard? 00:37:57
That's something we have talked about too and it's something we can add, add to the list, just like I said that at Main Street and 00:38:06
Vineyard Connector that that intersection may need some sort of innovative whether it's grade separation or something. 00:38:13
The same with Gopher, Geneva and Vineyard Connector as well, so we can definitely add that in. 00:38:21
And Mill Rd. as well and they, we do know in the past they've talked about that. So it's not something new. Yeah. And we just 00:38:27
actually recommended it to the MAD body and COG when we were discussing with the long transportation, both the transit and the 00:38:32
transportation, just talking about how we see this. If they're wanting to use this facility in this way, then they need to be able 00:38:37
to move traffic and they need to do it early. 00:38:42
So we'd like to see it because we'd like to present a map. 00:38:48
Cohesive to the things that we said because we're about to start developing and if we develop on those corners and then it's not 00:38:53
there, it's not in the plans, then people start being like, hey, this wasn't in the plans and we we want to make sure that it is 00:38:58
even in our own, definitely, yeah. 00:39:02
That's great feedback. 00:39:08
OK. Any other questions? 00:39:10
Any other comments? OK. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We appreciate all the work that you put into this. Look forward to 00:39:13
continuing to work together on. 00:39:17
All right, this brings us to our public comment period. It looks like a lot of people are in the room. This is the time for people 00:39:22
to talk to us about things that are not currently on the agenda. 00:39:27
So if you have something that you want to speak about, that's not on the agenda. 00:39:32
Come on up. 00:39:36
If it's on a consent item, there's not going to be discussion on it. So if you need to talk about that, come on up. 00:39:38
So this is your time. Come to the podium, state your name where you're from and list your comment. 00:39:44
You have a few minutes. 00:39:49
Come on up. 00:39:52
Mayor, former city staff and members of the council. My name is Randy Gray and I live in the 55 plus community of the Villas. I'd 00:39:59
like to begin just by acknowledging all of you and what you've done to help our senior citizens. It's clear that in partnership, a 00:40:06
lot has been accomplished. Much to do, but a lot has been accomplished. We have the parking ordinance which is tremendous and it 00:40:13
continues to. 00:40:20
Afford us a lot of satisfaction, so thank you for the ratification of that. 00:40:28
About six weeks ago, council members. 00:40:35
Christy and Amber coordinated. 00:40:41
A meeting at our clubhouse in the Villas with a lot of the county departments that profiled. 00:40:44
Contextual information that was really a benefit to everyone and. 00:40:53
Lieutenant Holden was there, Ezra was there. 00:41:00
In fact, the Lieutenant did a great job profiling the how the police function and the the County Sheriff's Department in terms of 00:41:04
preserving our safety and our welfare. So that was. 00:41:10
Very well received 2 weeks ago. 00:41:17
Councilmember Marty was at the meeting we were at, and that was the Alpine School District board. 00:41:22
And there were over, I'm going to say, between 1575 presentations that were made that evening. Only one was in favor of a county 00:41:30
tax increase, and that was a school teacher. 00:41:37
All the rest. 00:41:44
Were heartfeltly presented as no. In fact, there was reference to it being a backdoor approach to increasing tax. 00:41:45
It was very deleterious, very emotional. 00:41:55
And. 00:42:00
In fact, we could About 1/3 of the way through the meeting, I detected that the. 00:42:01
Board of the Alpine School District has already determined they're going to vote this percent increase. 00:42:07
And they. 00:42:14
So not only does this county and it ranks as one of the tops in the country for the the the school board. 00:42:15
Obtained 69% of county funds for education. Now they're adding another 13. 00:42:25
That has a deleterious effect on our senior citizens. 00:42:32
And I know I've spoke to you all before on this and we just want to ask you again for your support to help us. 00:42:37
Get some of the leadership of the legislature what I have since found out since my last time here. 00:42:48
Is that the county only? Does the property valuations? 00:42:53
It's the state legislature. 00:42:59
That determined what the percentage overlay would be for the tax structure. 00:43:02
We and that was ratified by Utah code. So what we need to do is get some legislators to a meeting and talk about the impact on 00:43:07
senior citizens who are on fixed income. 00:43:13
And how we might address that? I know of four by name in our community who are right now struggling with whether or not they 00:43:20
should proceed with their emergency medical situation or pay their county taxes. It should never be that way. There are many 00:43:28
states that have abatements that they separate out your third party revenue in terms of pensions and IRA. 00:43:37
But in this county, 100% of Social Security is also factored in. 00:43:46
Now to me that's a double taxation. I think I referenced that before. 00:43:52
They don't even include your expenses. The most detestable division of the federal government is the IRS and they allow you to 00:43:57
declare your expenses. So we need to have some help on this. In fact, with that reference point, I would just conclude this way. 00:44:05
When I. 00:44:15
Five years ago. 00:44:16
One of the things that really touched me was the principle of family values. 00:44:18
It's hard to really incorporate all of that when I see what's happening to senior citizens in Utah County. 00:44:25
Because they have. We have moved here to be with our 16 grandchildren and five children who live here and now we're confronted. 00:44:33
By these increased accounting taxes. So anything that any of you can do and I know you are all aware of the situation, you 00:44:41
corresponded with us. 00:44:47
And. 00:44:52
We express our appreciation, so thank you Mayor Councilmembers. 00:44:54
Thank you, Randy. I did actually talk to the chair of that committee and he said he will schedule and coordinate a meeting so that 00:44:58
we can meet and talk about it. Thank you. 00:45:03
No problem. 00:45:09
Good evening. My name is Emma Moss. I live in Bridgeport, knowing the master plan, and I'm going to use some notes, kind of 00:45:16
reference, a couple of things. 00:45:19
Knowing the master plan was being presented tonight, I came to propose an alternative solution to adding a four way stop at the 00:45:24
Vineyard Loop and 170 N near the entrance of Bridgeport. Is the thing that. 00:45:29
Councilmember well referenced earlier. I know that there's been a lot of work in surveys and things that are in place. Several of 00:45:34
those meetings were held and I work and I wasn't able to attend. 00:45:39
But based on the master plan, that road is currently listed in green and I worry that because it's off of a main. 00:45:45
The adding a four way stop would extend the issue of red down to around that curve, creating another safety issue. 00:45:52
It's a double-blind curve right there because there's a curve that comes around from over by the elementary school and then this 00:45:58
way. 00:46:01
And so I'd like to propose a consideration or an alternative solution of using either a Hawk light or a HAWK Beacon. 00:46:05
It kind of creates if we put a stop sign there, it kind of creates a false sense of security. 00:46:14
A hawk light would allow for free movement in this area when pedestrians are present and not impeding the flow of traffic, but 00:46:19
provide the safest option when people are there. 00:46:22
There was a Las Vegas study that showed that wait time decreased for pedestrians as well as increased the number of vehicles that 00:46:26
actually stopped, and I can send you these references. 00:46:30
In Tucson, AZ, Hoglight study was used in the busy intersection where there was a 29% reduction in total accidents and a 69% 00:46:34
reduction in pedestrian crashes. 00:46:38
A Vermont study found that it increased, yielding compliance in those areas. 00:46:43
And I just really like to find the best long term solution for the area I know at times have been discussed. 00:46:47
We couldn't put a hawk light there because it was being possibly proposed to put a hawk light further down at the crosswalk that's 00:46:53
there. But I have concerns if it's there that then during times when the elementary school is in session, then you have like a 00:46:58
stop here and a stop here, which then also impedes the flow of traffic where it gives it more space. As well as that I think more 00:47:04
people are crossing at that intersection currently illegally because there is not a crosswalk there to that clubhouse. 00:47:10
And so I wonder if that sort of solution would provide long term as well as address the traffic patterns that flow through that 00:47:17
area. So just came to offer a alternative exclusion and love questions or comments and I really appreciate you coming and bringing 00:47:23
that viewpoint in fact that seems like in here but. 00:47:28
That is actually why I'm recommending that we put a study on it. OK, perfect. Had some a residence asked about the Four way. 00:47:36
Stop that. We have to do a study on it, because what you're bringing up are really good. 00:47:42
Points that there's other ways we can mitigate the issue and if there really is an issue or not and that's what's so great about 00:47:47
the studies, we can actually get real data and see what what could actually help there and not as you say, cause more issues. Do 00:47:54
you know a timeline of that study? Cuz so that's what Nancy was just saying. These are a city engineer. Hello. 00:48:00
He's not over there. Where is it? He was there. He was saying that actually if we keep it out of the transportation plan, we will 00:48:08
be able to do it sooner than later. And it sounds like he was staying later this year, this calendar year. Is that what he was 00:48:12
saying before? 00:48:16
The end of 2023? 00:48:20
So it sounds like we can do the study this before perfect. Is there a way as a resident also go ahead, Ezra. If it's a rapid 00:48:24
flashing beacon, we can get in a lot sooner. The Hawks are quite a bit more expensive, right? Yeah, so we can probably get. And 00:48:30
then the research, I guess what you're saying is if the study shows that that is a good solution. 00:48:37
We can do the study faster by not doing it in a transportation plan. That's what I heard tonight. And if the solutions come back, 00:48:44
as as simple as a flashing stoplight or stop. 00:48:48
That. 00:48:54
And. 00:48:56
Yeah, I don't know if I would come back to public meeting, but we definitely could get back to the community about it. Thank you. 00:49:25
If you leave your address, I mean your name and your e-mail as well, we can make sure to contact you so. 00:49:34
My name is Allison Salsa. I live in the preserves. I also have kind of a maybe. 00:49:44
Comment the Vineyard Loop Rd. or 600 N and Main Street. There's just so much happening at that intersection. I was really pleased 00:49:50
to see that it was put as high priority. So thank you for that information, that study, but I just wanted to again just talk about 00:49:58
suggestions and throw out the idea of a roundabout. I think priorities in that area would be to keep traffic flowing I. 00:50:06
Whereas there's just the light just up the road with vineyard connector and then the elementary school we just down probably want 00:50:14
to keep. 00:50:19
Speeds flowing but not too fast and also I think that's too congested for that many lights. So that I just wanted to put a plug in 00:50:24
for a roundabout in that intersection. Thank you. Thank you, Allison. And I believe they are examining that as well as other 00:50:30
opportunities we put that comment in. 00:50:36
You can go ahead, Dora. Oh, OK. Good evening. I'm Daria, looking down. I just thought you knew. That's OK. Daria Evans, a villa's 00:50:57
resident. Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to share some concerns that I have. 00:51:05
Recently, there's some been some. 00:51:14
At the Garden Community gardens and I'm really disappointed that fencing has not been put in yet that at the gamut in the Sunset 00:51:17
Beach Community Gardens and I'm wondering why the fences have not been put up yet. 00:51:24
We have had stuff previously at German Gardens. 00:51:31
And now it's migrating to Sunset Beach Gardens. The residents put their time and their money into these projects, and it is 00:51:35
criminal that people are stealing from them. 00:51:41
And I wish that Innard City would be more proactive in their approach to the gardens. 00:51:47
We actually initially thought that we had fencing already, that we're going to be repurposed. 00:51:53
And when we discovered that we didn't have that, we got some feedback about costs that were substantial. So we are, we've asked 00:51:59
our grant writer to look at some grants for that, and we're working to get that as fast as possible. Would it be the same type of 00:52:06
the wrought iron, the wrought iron fence that would be acceptable. 00:52:12
When we when we approve the community garden over there, that was one of the things we mentioned that that it would have fencing 00:52:19
whether or not. 00:52:22
Funding is an issue, but that it would have to have fencing and it would have to match the current fencing that's at that location 00:52:26
already. Yeah, well, it's it's very disappointing that it hasn't happened. 00:52:31
Because like I said, these people have put in their time and their. 00:52:36
And you know, they want, they would like to have their produce. Yeah. And I think we all agree with you. I think one of the things 00:52:40
that we have to recognize is that it is a, call it, kind of a volunteer and a sponsor formed community garden. And so we had 00:52:45
everybody kind of. 00:52:50
Recognize that that's an issue that they might face as we're looking for sponsorship funds and as we go out and talk to grant 00:52:56
writers. 00:52:59
With it happening often, we don't want it to be a negative experience. And so we have been looking to see if there are additional 00:53:04
funds that we can find and working with community partners to make sure that it is a focus and a priority because it's an amenity 00:53:10
that we found that the community really appreciate. So I think we share a similar understanding of that. So thank you for your 00:53:16
comment. Thank you. Yeah, we do have several neighbors in our neighborhood that. 00:53:22
Really enjoy. 00:53:29
And then you mentioned that I could comment on a consent item. 00:53:30
And so I'd like to comment on consent items number 6.3. 00:53:35
I'm wondering why you chose the Vineyard City building. 00:53:40
Right South of here and the Public Works building #2. Oversight #3. What were your criterion for choosing those two sides? 00:53:45
Oversight #3. 00:53:49
How should we approach a discussion on? 00:53:57
Because we're anticipating, actually even pulling that off tonight and not discussing it. 00:54:01
I don't know. 00:54:10
Wonderful. 00:54:42
And then? 00:54:43
Number another one. 00:54:45
I'm I was very disappointed to see the new Utah City video come up to me. It did. 00:54:47
Very similar to what I saw at the Planning Commission site. 00:54:57
Plan that they had presented. 00:55:02
I did not. You might think this is silly, that I didn't see dog parts that they said they would have. I did not see bicycles. I 00:55:04
saw little segues. 00:55:08
I did not see. 00:55:12
Bicycle pathways either. 00:55:15
And I did not see. 00:55:17
A playground. 00:55:22
That was. 00:55:24
Available for all children of all abilities. They said they were going to be a DA compliant, but to me I could not see that and it 00:55:26
looked like a lot more concrete buildings than what they showed in the site plan. 00:55:32
On August 2nd in the Planning Commission. 00:55:39
So they're just talking about excitement. And so if you're looking for information about what's here, what's happening, what's 00:56:19
real, you can come to the Planning Commission, you can come to the City Council, and that's where you're going to find that 00:56:24
information that that you can. If if you liked what you saw there, then you can feel assurance of site plans come through that 00:56:29
your voice and your participation will be able to match that in this setting, yes, but that's what I'm saying. It did not match 00:56:34
what I saw. 00:56:40
At the at the Planning Commission meeting to me. 00:56:45
It did not look the same as what they are proposing it to be and so I was very disappointed about and then I have another question 00:56:48
or a comment. 00:56:53
While riding my bike, I like to ride my bike. 00:56:58
And I really took notice of the difference in subdivisions. 00:57:02
I noticed in the single family home subdivisions I just happened to be writing and was a nice peaceful morning. 00:57:06
And I noticed how wide the streets are. Sidewalks on both sides of the streets. 00:57:12
Then I'm writing up third. 00:57:18
And I go up past the loop Rd. up into that. 00:57:20
Congo townhome situation. 00:57:24
The streets seem narrower because they have parking on. 00:57:28
There's sidewalk on the side, and then there's sidewalk on this side. Sidewalk on this side. This has no continuity. And why? Why 00:57:32
is that allowed? 00:57:37
Not have. 00:57:42
The same type of sidewalks and street with. 00:57:43
Throughout all the main years. That's my next question. 00:57:47
Yeah I think if you're talking about those are private streets you have 303 hundred West of the public St. and then you do have 00:57:56
private streets. Private streets are are you know we don't we don't govern them as much. We do have requirements in the code. So 00:58:02
they do have to provide pedestrian connections through throughout the through through throughout the development. But we have, we 00:58:09
have less control over like private streets and residential streets. But aren't those roads not plowed by Vineyard. 00:58:16
Now I'm not so missing me. They're probably the worst director. My department handles the plowing so the private streets are not 00:58:23
filed by Veneer City. The private streets are filed by the private HOS. And the main requirements for all streets especially and 00:58:29
then down to the private streets is that they're wide enough to be able to handle emergency vehicles access. So the anything in 00:58:35
addition to that outside of two lanes of travel and. 00:58:41
And and access for emergency vehicles is. 00:58:49
We're at the table I. 00:58:53
It just dawned on me that it looked. 00:58:56
Incompatible with the rest of the vineyard, and that's very disappointing. One. Another question. 00:59:00
When will the sun sales be installed at Grove Park? 00:59:07
I give up then on that. We just got the design back today actually. So we've got two different design options that we can 00:59:13
circulate internally, but we just seen those staff recommendation or just about to show off council. So those are coming along. 00:59:18
It'll probably be installed October, November timeline. OK, great. Thank you. The the post that is we'll we'll take them down in 00:59:23
the winter time and so you'll see them up next next summer season. OK, wonderful. That's great. I'm glad it was in this year's 00:59:28
budget. 00:59:34
And then one last question. 00:59:39
When will the grocery store be announced? 00:59:42
I've asked this several. 00:59:45
Yeah, we just heard back. They are tying up some things and I think the beginning of September is the same kind of. 00:59:47
Thing that we're hearing and we're looking forward to it and we imagine it's in this next week so. 00:59:55
Sometime soon, OK. 01:00:00
Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. You know, and I think something that you should be aware of when you're upset about 01:00:03
something that they're doing or if you have a question for them, I think you could reach out to them. They're really accessible. 01:00:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they might be able to answer those questions for you since it's a private matter that they're dealing with. 01:00:17
I will do that. Thanks, Daria. 01:00:22
OK. Any other comments? 01:00:27
OK. 01:00:32
Seeing as there are no other comments, I'm going to go ahead and close the public comments and move on to mayor and council member 01:00:33
reports. 01:00:36
Mine was the community garden. 01:00:43
Thanks for bringing that up already, Daria, as we see our harvest and abundance this year. 01:00:47
Please don't pick from the boxes unless they're yours, but also, if you have excess produce, please use their vegetable stand 01:00:53
because a lot of people take food from there. 01:00:58
Fantasy. 01:01:03
Right. 01:01:05
I just want to remind everyone that on September 11th we have our. 01:01:07
I'm so sorry, I just caught the drum show, but there's a better name for it. 01:01:12
The Constitution? Patriotic. 01:01:17
Celebrate America. 01:01:21
Yes, some memorial for 911 that's also supporting our constitution months and weeks so. 01:01:24
We'll also have a conc. 01:01:35
And then also just recreation something exciting, Volleyball. He's volleyball, so sign ups are happening now and we have a race 01:01:37
coming up. 01:01:41
Southern and soccer season is going forward well and just add to that right before the drone show and the concert happened, there 01:01:46
will be this really neat memorial that we hope the residents come and join us for. So that would be great. 01:01:52
Thank you, Mart. 01:01:59
Just a plug for an even during youth or parents if you have youth ages 12 to 18 that want to be involved in the youth council. 01:02:03
This is the beginning of the next year and those meetings will be regularly on the Anna. Is it? Did we decide on the 1st Thursday 01:02:12
of the month? 01:02:17
That's OK. 01:02:24
And then Arch. OK, so they will be the first Thursday, Thursdays of the month here in the council chambers at 6:00 PM and they can 01:02:25
apply to be a part of that on our website currently. 01:02:31
And it's a really awesome opportunity for them. Also, our Arts Commission is now in full force and those meetings are at 6:00 PM 01:02:38
here. 01:02:43
And the city offices on the 3rd Thursdays of the month. So if you want to be a part of those meetings, these cameras are publicly. 01:02:48
Pardon for a second please council. The first meeting will be September 12th. Oh thank you. Yes, next month only it will be 01:02:58
September 12th, Tuesday, September 12th and 6th. But the following month will be the first Thursday. Thank you, Pam. Can I add one 01:03:04
more thing? The library board also met and set up their bylaws and policies and. 01:03:11
One thing that's great is we're continuing not to. 01:03:19
And charge fees, right? 01:03:22
So I thought that was pretty great. 01:03:25
Thank you. 01:03:28
Yes, Daria, thanks for bringing up the slide the shade cells. I was going to bring that up at Staffport right now. But we do have 01:03:31
those two options and that recommendation how the council soon, but we'll work on getting those installed before well before next 01:03:35
summer so. 01:03:39
Additionally, on park improvements, we have a Slide Hill contract. 01:03:45
To move forward with that. So that's moving along where we're going to be redesigning that that slide held at that Grove Park and 01:03:49
and shaping it. You'll see it's a little overgrown with weeds right now because the contractor will come in and and clean it up as 01:03:54
part of that work, so. 01:03:58
Ezra keeps saying Slide Hill. So for those that don't understand, we're going to be putting slides in ground slides on the current 01:04:03
hill at Grove Park, so it will then be called the Slide Hill. 01:04:09
Thank you for that clarification. Appreciate that. On our construction projects, we're working on some water line projects along 01:04:18
Mill Rd. So just be careful of the construction that's in those areas. Additionally, the water tank is almost ready to to be 01:04:23
filled with water. So if council if you'd like to take a tour before it gets filled with water then we can get that scheduled. I 01:04:29
wouldn't recommend doing it after it gets filled with water. 01:04:34
And then our citywide stop sign installation is almost complete. So we're moving along with that project, but. 01:04:41
Last thing as well our GFO, a budget doc. So you'll see we have those GFO A budget awards up on the wall back. There are citizen 01:04:48
friendly budget will be done in this next month and so that document will be available to the public as well for review. 01:04:55
And Chief Sanderson is here, and I feel like we, he said. If he was gonna join us and answer our questions for all of our City 01:05:03
Council meetings, I feel like we need to find you a chair and a microphone. 01:05:09
Well, we're glad to have you here. 01:05:17
OK. 01:05:20
Thank you, everyone. We'll go ahead and move on to our consent items. And as I mentioned before, there were some questions and 01:05:22
some things we wanted to tidy up on 6.3 if you guys want to move moving that to a future date. 01:05:27
Or to. 01:05:34
Make a motion. 01:05:35
And pull it off at the same time in the same. 01:05:38
You could. OK, so I moved to approve the consent items that's presented, but to also remove consent item 6.3. 01:05:41
First by Christine to move that to a different. 01:05:50
I don't think so. I'll repeat it. So you did it first to approve 6.16.2 and 6.4 and to move 6.3 to a future meeting. 01:05:53
Hi, second. 01:06:06
And this is going to be done by roll call Tice, Amber. Yay, Marty Christy. 01:06:08
We'll go ahead and move on to our Arts Commission appointments. We have a few people that have accepted. 01:06:16
Time. 01:06:24
The call to serve on this committee and are they both here? Elizabeth, you are here. Is Jeremy here tonight? You may not be able 01:06:25
to have attended tonight, but with your consent. 01:06:31
Council. I would like to appoint them to the Arts Commission. 01:06:37
Yes, ma'am. I'd love to move to approve the mayor's appointments as presented. And second, first by Christie, second by Amber. All 01:06:41
in favor. Aye. All right. Thank you so much. We look forward to working with you. And at a later point, you can swear them in. OK. 01:06:50
Excellent. All right. 01:06:58
Yeah. Do you want to do one now? Yeah. Would you like to come up and we'll spare you on. 01:07:02
OK. 01:07:11
She will guide you right by, maybe right about. 01:07:15
We'd like to make it very public. We can even have you say a few words. 01:07:19
So repeat after me I I'll state your name. 01:07:28
Having been appointed to the Vineyard Arch Commission. 01:07:34
You solemnly swear that I will support, obey, and defend. 01:07:38
Support. Obey the Constitution of the United States, Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the State of Utah, 01:07:44
Constitution of the State of Utah, and allow you to start the duties of my office and. 01:07:50
Fidelity. 01:07:57
Congratulations. 01:08:00
Thank you. 01:08:03
OK, Speaking of supporting the Constitution, we are going to be going to read a proclamation for 2023-07, and this is to designate 01:08:19
Constitution. 01:08:26
And so I'm going to go ahead and read this. Whereas September 17th, 2023 marks the 236th anniversary of drafting of the 01:08:34
Constitution of the United States of America by the Const. 01:08:40
Constitutional Convention and whereas every anniversary of the Constitution provides A historic opportunity for all Americans to 01:08:47
learn about, defend, and reflect upon the rights and privileges of citizens and its responsibilities. 01:08:53
And whereas. 01:09:00
Because fitting in pop. 01:09:01
A special recognition to this magnificent, sorry, magnificent document and its memorable anniversary into the patriotic 01:09:05
celebrations which will commemorate this occasion. And whereas Public Law 915 guarantees the issuing of a proclamation each year 01:09:13
by the President of the United States of America, designating September 17th to the 23rd is Constitution Week, Now, therefore I 01:09:21
Julie, former Mayor of the City of Vineyard, Utah, hereby proclaim the week of September 17th to the 23rd, 2023. 01:09:28
As constitutionally, and I urge all citizens to study the Constitution and reflect on the privilege of being an American with all 01:09:36
the rights and responsibilities. 01:09:39
With which that privilege involves and dated this 30th day of August and I'll go ahead and sign that. But I do want to tell you as 01:09:44
we do this, there are so many opportunities to get involved and learn about the Constitution. This month, we're going to have the 01:09:50
day that Marty talked about on 9/11. Additionally, there's opportunities to go and learn about the Constitution at UVU. There will 01:09:57
be several opportunities to meet people and pick up a constitution here at our offices. So please keep your eye out for those 01:10:03
posts and and stay involved. 01:10:09
Thank you so much. 01:10:17
All right, this brings us to our business items. We're going to move into a public hearing. This is the Zoning Code Text Amendment 01:10:19
Ordinance 2023 Dash 27. 01:10:24
And our planner, Cash Fancy, will present this text amendment and I'm going to have the council open the public hearing and then 01:10:30
we'll have this discussion. We'll allow the person to speak and then we'll go out of that for council discussion after that. So I 01:10:37
need a motion to go and go public. Thank you, Marty. Second, second by Amber. All in favor. 01:10:43
All right. 01:10:50
All right. Good evening, Council. I'm here to present the zoning text amendment for the dimensional standards table. 01:10:52
Located within our zoning code. 01:10:59
And the purpose of. 01:11:01
John Katzmann is to increase the building height in the two lots within two lots of the army district. So once this loads. 01:11:04
Start represent. 01:11:12
There we go. 01:11:15
There we go. OK, there's a little background on this specific zoning text amendment. It is an applicant initiated zoning text 01:11:21
amendment, so the city. 01:11:25
Initiate this. The text is to increase the building height from 60 feet which is allowed within the arm you 270 feet. 01:11:29
And this would only apply to lots one and two of the Miller E subdivision plat B. So the map off to the right shows, just for 01:11:37
reference, just to where these two blocks are. They're kind of. 01:11:42
Lots across from the HBA building. 01:11:48
So here's the language of the code so you can see it just strikes that. 01:11:54
It actually should still be at 60. I do apologize this presentation wasn't updated. It should be 60 with the asterisk and the 01:11:59
eight. The eight leading to a clause at the bottom that reads a building height not exceeding 70 feet measured from the top of 01:12:05
back of curve to the highest point of the building or structure may be permitted. This height allowance will be limited to lots 01:12:10
one and two of the Mill Rd. East subdivision flat D. 01:12:16
Over the past few months, we've taken this zoning testament to the Planning Commission for review and kind of narrowed it down to 01:12:22
this. It used to be applied to the whole RMU and they really wanted to constrain it to these two lots specifically. 01:12:29
And so that's what we've done with this clause here. 01:12:37
So, and the applicant is here as well and what they've done is they've provided us with some perspective photos. So they went out 01:12:41
to the site with some balloons and took some photos from far away to help you kind of see the what these buildings may look like 01:12:47
or the height change. And so this just gives you a reference point of where they took those photos. 01:12:54
So, and it was, I think, a little windy so that the balloons aren't super straight. But did do you want to come up and just maybe 01:13:01
explain the balloons a little clearer? 01:13:06
Cash while Brian's coming up, I believe, and I don't know if you're going to cover this or not, but the Planning Commission. 01:13:14
Recommended which you can add to it if you if you chose to approve that it be limited to non residential buildings. 01:13:21
So it'd be those two lots, so lot specific and then two non residential buildings. 01:13:30
So those are balloons. 01:13:38
The green one is the tall one, of course. I think that what we're trying to pick is, oh, Brian. 01:13:42
So during the plant, we went to Planning Commission at least a couple times, right? And we have. 01:13:49
Several other times and some residents were concerned. 01:13:56
You know, losing a view by increasing it. So we were just trying to pick is that at the current 60 feet, the view is already gone. 01:14:01
And then we also had it. Do you have a? 01:14:10
Like we could show. OK, so we also had a video running down Mill Rd. from Maverick. You know up past UCC with the new. 01:14:13
Just to show the current buildings that. 01:14:22
Even less than the 60 feet, you can't see Timpanogos unless you're in between roads. So we just try to, you know, show that we 01:14:26
don't think we're the views of the blue sky will stay the same. 01:14:32
Because 60 feet would already not be there. Our our reasoning for it is we have a four story building plan and we're selling the 01:14:38
space and most people nowadays in their office spaces. 01:14:44
The office office spaces look more grand than maybe say five years ago as far as building heights, there's more open ceilings. The 01:14:51
ceiling heights are taller from floor to floor and then we also have a mechanical equipment that's up on the on the roof. So we 01:14:57
were button up against the heights to keep the four story building. So that that was the approach and just to try to show the 01:15:02
heights of the balloons and we think. 01:15:08
Be good looking, you know. Thank you. That's a great visual. 01:15:14
Any questions? 01:15:19
I will add a few things. So right now the art this is still within the army district. Army district does not allow for any 01:15:20
additional residential capacity at this point. So the buildings that are being constructed would all be non residential. So I know 01:15:25
that's a concern that many people may have so. 01:15:31
Just as Brian said, these would be some office buildings built in these lots. 01:15:36
That's great. Thank you. Any questions from the public? 01:15:40
Can I just get clarification on the balloons? 01:15:45
I guess it's not my turn yet. I guess it's a public. 01:15:48
Is the. So the green top ballin I assume is 70 feet and the yellow is 60. 01:15:51
Come on up. 01:16:00
Your name in one of your phone. 01:16:04
My name is Kayden Rotten in the cottonwoods. I just have a question probably for you. Is it just is it so Cash mentioned that it's 01:16:06
non residential and it's zoned for non residential but will there? 01:16:13
You need retail, maybe on the main floor? Or is it just? 01:16:20
Like office. 01:16:23
Like offices. 01:16:25
I don't know. Just wondering if there's retail part. 01:16:27
So, so right now the plan is just strictly 4 levels of office. 01:16:34
We have a lot to the South that we're trying to incorporate retail on the bottom. 01:16:39
Bottom section. 01:16:44
You know, you know, we go either way, but we think office space is going to be 7. So each building there's three buildings. There 01:16:47
are 4 levels. 01:16:51
Each space is 7000 square feet on each level. 01:16:55
And it's divisible into. 01:16:59
So our plan is to actually sell office space to proprietors that want to own their own space. 01:17:01
So it could be somebody that wants by 1500 square feet. 01:17:06
All up to 7000 off floor or multiple floors. 01:17:10
Because a lot of businesses right now you have to go rent. So I think it's a lot of smaller businessmen. 01:17:13
Women an opportunity to buy their own space. 01:17:19
And and like a Class A office. 01:17:21
Thank you. Have you already found tennis or are you going to build an attractive? So we have several that have said over the past 01:17:25
year and a half they're going to buy, but until we get like approval then we can't line them up. 01:17:30
We have probably 5 different tenants. 01:17:36
That are. 01:17:40
And it just depends on how much what's up. 01:17:42
Yes. 01:17:47
That's exciting. 01:17:49
OK, thank you. OK. I attended the July 19th Planning Commission meeting and this matter was brought up and I I voiced my opinion. 01:17:57
I was concerned about the view heights. 01:18:04
And this gentleman did bring back the next Planning Commission meeting these. 01:18:11
The reason I'm concerned about it is because the code. 01:18:17
Stipulates that the height be 60 feet. 01:18:22
And if we decide? 01:18:24
Amend that, then I believe that we should have to amend the view protection codes also, which are part of the general plan if you 01:18:27
take those away. 01:18:32
You're taking the teeth out of the general plan. 01:18:38
I if you give one develop. 01:18:41
Others are going to take effect more advantage of the situation and ask for more. Also I'd like to review with you the protection 01:18:47
view protections 15.36, point 030. 01:18:53
Point 1.8 point. 01:18:59
Terror shall be taken to control the proportion and massing of buildings to minimize the obstruction of all views. 01:19:02
Vertical design elements exaggerating building height and dominant roof lines shall be avoided. 01:19:10
This is now. This is the other 115 point 36.030.12. Due to the community quality and character created by the surrounding scenic 01:19:16
beauty, it is essential that the city and all subdivision and site plan designs preserve general access to significant views. 01:19:24
These views include Mount Timpanogos, Provo Canyon, West Mountain, and Utah Lake. 01:19:32
Those are my concerns. I bring them before you. Thank you very much. I have a question. 01:19:41
Everything that you said makes sense at the 60 foot level as it's not impeding anything but a little extra sky. What do you feel 01:19:47
the losses? Is it mostly your first comment that you feel like we're giving something and we think that that will then be 01:19:53
replicated throughout the city because. 01:19:58
That that's the question. 01:20:04
That's growing at like 10,000%. We're constantly updating it. 01:20:40
So when we look at different areas and developments and we're trying to attract something, sometimes you'll have an area that 01:20:44
says, hey, we want to bring in a gym. 01:20:48
And it's something that the community really wants, but they need 10 extra feet. And when they come in, we say that is something 01:20:52
we wanted. We didn't account for the ceiling height. And so we leave that open to the discussion and we look at things like is it 01:20:58
impeding the things that we didn't want. And if we see that it's just blocking the sky versus one of the things that we're trying 01:21:04
to preserve, it's something that we leave as flexibility to attract the types of businesses and companies that we want to see 01:21:10
here. So that's kind of been. 01:21:16
That is the reason for the general plan and that is the reason for the ability to vote on it and make those changes. 01:21:22
OK, so my next question is, are you going to change these codes? 01:21:30
I don't know. 01:21:34
Because do you mean update the general plan? Update them? 01:21:36
And you know, with things that are coming in where I've already losing the view of Utah Lake at the overpass, you can hardly see 01:21:40
it. 01:21:43
Yeah, That's a good question. 01:21:47
And I'm, I mean maybe maybe we need to articulate it better and I like what you're saying because from the beginning of the design 01:21:50
of the city and I, I want to say this, it's we've always planned for buildings down there and these roads and this infrastructure 01:21:58
long before I moved here, but I moved here very early and these things were planned. And so as we see even kind of impede the 01:22:05
visuals, I think we recognize that that would happen, but then anything additional. 01:22:13
Where we could preserve it, we wanted to make that, but maybe we do need articulate it better so that it's not confusing because 01:22:21
we still have to bring in the type of infrastructure that allows us to grow and produce movement and economic diversity and the 01:22:27
things that really are going to make us a viable community. So that's a good question. We'll look into that. 01:22:34
You should keep the code. Thank you. 01:22:43
Any. 01:22:45
Any other comments from the public? If so, please come up. 01:22:47
State your name and where. 01:22:50
Hi. 01:22:57
My name is Liz Hart. I'm a resident and property owner at the Edgewater Town. 01:22:59
You can actually see my townhome in that picture. 01:23:03
So that means my townhome faces the subject property. 01:23:06
First, I am against this request, while I hope you deny the request tonight. 01:23:10
I don't believe that enough information has been presented to you. 01:23:15
To be able to make a decision. 01:23:19
My request is that you continue this item to the next meeting and have staff put together a qualitative analysis and present that 01:23:21
at a public meeting. 01:23:25
There's a few issues I believe that have not been addressed. First, I want to. 01:23:31
I was not able to listen to the August 2nd Planning Commission meeting because they are not available on the website. 01:23:35
So I'm not fully informed on all discussions or how the Planning Commission was able to make their decision. 01:23:41
I was also not able to find that background information in the staff report. 01:23:48
The next issue? 01:23:52
That there is no discussion in the public record on how 70 feet will impact the residents of the townhomes that face the subject. 01:23:54
The discussion was on how the buildings will affect the residents on the West side of Mill Rd. I believe there will be an impact 01:24:01
to the residents that live next to the subject property and the surrounding properties that needs to be addressed through 01:24:05
analysis. 01:24:09
Yes, I do have concerns about my views. I have great views of mount. 01:24:14
But 60 feet is going to ruin that. 01:24:18
My concern is how these buildings are going to impact lighting, and not lighting from the building, but lighting from the sun. How 01:24:21
do the shadows of a 70 foot building impact my general enjoyment of my property? 01:24:27
I want to have natural sunlight coming into my windows. I believe it's crucial to my mental and physical health. 01:24:34
And 8060 feet already does that, but there is no analysis on if it will or not. 01:24:40
There was mention of a traffic Anal. 01:24:46
At the Planning Commission meeting in July. 01:24:49
But that was not included in this staff. 01:24:52
I'm not sure if it was discussed further at the August Planning Commission meeting, but staff stated in the July meeting that it 01:24:54
was not included because it is believed to not be pertinent. 01:24:58
I believe that it is pertinent to this application. 10 extra feet is potentially a full floor. 01:25:03
And I know commercial buildings are different and probably have more than 10 feet for a floor, but still more space means more 01:25:09
people, which means more cars. 01:25:13
And this is important to your decision making. 01:25:18
The general plan is meant to be. 01:25:21
A guide to you and your decision making. 01:25:24
But again, there's no mention of the general plan in the staff report. What policies, goals, objective, etcetera of this city does 01:25:26
this request meet, doesn't meet or is it neutral? 01:25:31
There are There needs to be an analysis of the general plan to help guide you to a decision. Your general plan is the best way for 01:25:38
you to deny this request. 01:25:42
I have a couple more. 01:25:47
The last sentence of the Army Purpose statement states development within this district shall be compatible with surrounding, 01:25:49
existing and planned land uses. 01:25:53
How is 70 feet compatible with the townhomes or the surrounding development? Does this tax amendment further the purpose statement 01:25:58
of the RMU? 01:26:02
How does this amendment implement the best current professional practices of urban planning and design? There is a design impact 01:26:09
to a surrounding properties that has not been looked at. 01:26:14
Years ago, the city said 60 feet was appropriate for the RMU. So why is 70 feet appropriate now, specifically for this property? 01:26:20
Again, not enough information has been provided to you and I asked the City Council continue this item to the next meeting and 01:26:30
have staff put together a qualitative analysis and present it to the public. Thank you. Thanks Liz. Quick question. 01:26:38
She thought that our Planning Commission meeting minutes or not, sorry, I didn't realize it wasn't working. I have. 01:26:45
I can get those re uploaded. 01:26:55
Yeah, my apologies I. 01:26:57
Was not aware it wasn't working on them. 01:26:59
Yeah, no, I I also, I I felt it was really unfortunate that I couldn't watch so that I could be more prepared today. 01:27:02
OK. 01:27:09
Any other comments? Come on up, Julie. Yeah, come on. 01:27:12
Mayor Fuller and the Council. I am Julie. 01:27:19
Located in the villas and this community does affect our community personally. 01:27:24
And So what the question I. 01:27:32
Is this office space going to be rental? 01:27:38
For businesses that come, he said he was going to sell. 01:27:43
And separate spaces within the building or is there rental down the line the the code doesn't require? 01:27:47
My property owner to rent or to sell. So even if someone bought 1500 square feet, they, you know, they they could potentially rent 01:27:55
that. OK, that's what I kind of wanted to know. 01:28:01
And. 01:28:07
The question. 01:28:11
Parking built. 01:28:14
To these business centers? Or is the city going to own the parking on this? 01:28:17
And the developers need to prepare for that par. 01:28:23
Are they going to build a garage? What is their concepts in this? 01:28:27
Yeah. I mean, at this point, it's just a a text amount. And so there's not necessarily a site plan, though the applicant has 01:28:34
prepared a concept plan that will be reviewed and they are preparing for that. The parking code doesn't have a parking requirement 01:28:40
for for office spaces. So they'll have to, they'll have to meet that. And so there's a list of standards within the site plan and 01:28:46
the parking and Lansing chapters that and all those about to be met at the time they file for a site plan. OK, Morgan, thank you 01:28:52
so much. What I see though? 01:28:58
I'm really concerned for the future of our Northtown. 01:29:04
And the impact of these high office build? 01:29:08
And how it fits into the scheme of the residential there? And I'm just curious, curious what is the projected population in this 01:29:13
northern area? 01:29:19
I think that's really hard to say because we don't really know what is driving the market. I mean, we could. 01:29:26
Numbers that I don't think it would be accurate, but maybe we did the traffic study or do we have something that I think it's in 01:29:33
working with the applicant. I mean a lot of it is going to be market based and so it's been discussed anywhere from you know 4500 01:29:39
to 12,000 units with. 01:29:46
You know a potential 1,000,000 square feet of office, the 2,000,000 square feet. So a lot of that is going to be what market 01:29:53
driven. So it's hard to know because you were looking at you know, you know they're starting construction now. So it's going to be 01:29:59
potentially a 1520 year build out, maybe even more a project of this size. Yeah, and we'll have to meet our Rd. 01:30:06
Designed. 01:30:13
So there'll be, it'll be stopped at certain Rd. Designs as well. They're not able to move the traffic, right? 01:30:15
Yes, Sir. I'm the team for the works director. So in terms of when the development is being done, we request a transportation 01:30:22
impact analysis in order to ensure that what's being done at built and proposed is conducive to the railway network. 01:30:31
And when? 01:30:40
When developers are building something that would be outside what the railway network address. 01:30:43
And when a typical impact he would do then that's when those. 01:30:50
Additional in order for the developer to potentially go forward, the developer would have to make those upgrades OK another 01:30:55
question do we have plans for 450 residents? That's what the video said. 01:31:02
Is that your 450 president? 01:31:10
For downtown. 01:31:17
Is it residential? Yeah. So the first two blocks that have been approved that are that are they're in the kind of the foundation. 01:31:19
Utility grounds, I work right now, but those those I believe it gets us to about 450 cash might have the exact number, but that's 01:31:29
that's for that very first phase and then they they have other buildings coming in behind that, OK and that makes sense and that's 01:31:35
where the downtown, this particular area just so we know for the public what we're talking about is that this unit is right by the 01:31:40
Dairy Queen. 01:31:46
There we go. Oh, OK. 01:31:52
Oh, my God. That's OK. We talked about both here, so it makes sense why you think that. I just want to clarify in case we were 01:31:56
talking about two different things on the call, let's go back to the map so that we have because I thought this is Northtown, Will 01:32:03
you forgive me? No, it's fine. You're fine. Don't even apologize. Really. Thank you. It's like a bunch of parcels. 01:32:10
OK. 01:32:18
OK. Yes, thank you. I'm just just seeing all of this, but I feel for the community that's down there. So yeah, yeah, you know, but 01:32:19
just know I'll be back. 01:32:26
On the north side, thank you. Thank you. We love your thoughts. All right. Any other comments come on up? 01:32:34
Alright. 01:32:50
Cool, Mike. How's that? It's good. Cool. So my name is Alec Green and I am a resident of Edgewater. Again, You can. 01:32:51
My townhouse. My townhouse actually in this photo. And I'm actually kind of glad this photo exists because it solidifies my 01:32:58
argument. 01:33:02
One thing I really want to talk to you, the Council about. Thank you again for the time. 01:33:07
Is the logistics of having a 70 foot tall building this close to these properties? 01:33:12
There are already known issues with these properties, especially the South edge of townhomes. The 125 N if. If. 01:33:17
Most of these townhomes actually have ice damning issues. This is usually caused by a lack of light in the winter, so we'll 01:33:25
basically get. 01:33:29
Runoff it will. Ref. 01:33:33
'Cause a dam and the water won't be able to escape, so it actually goes under your shingles and into your roof. This causes 01:33:35
structural damage. 01:33:38
I can actually attest to it because. 01:33:41
Wow, sorry came right up. 01:33:44
So I can actually test this because it's happened to my roof. 01:33:47
In the grand scheme of things, without a 70 foot tall obstruction, we're still not getting enough light in the winter to preserve 01:33:50
our homes. 01:33:54
Obviously it's going to lead to damaged properties. If we're renting, our tenants are going to be pretty angry. 01:33:58
But I also want to speak to the math of this as well. 01:34:03
The the argument that. 01:34:07
It's only 10 feet is actually pretty significant because for example. 01:34:11
If we take the Sun's position on December 31st, 2023, we're only looking at about 26 degrees off off the horizon, right? 01:34:17
For context, today at noon the sun was about 56 degrees. I can get you guys figures, but you know, sun's been around forever. We 01:34:26
can figure these out and go back. 01:34:31
In December 31st, think of where the sun was at at noon and then subtract about half. That's kind of the context we're working 01:34:36
with. 01:34:39
Now with the 70 foot tall obstruction, some arbitrary buildings, some geometry, whatever it may be. 01:34:43
From that South wall, you can actually see it in the photo. From that South wall, if that building is within 115 feet, it will 01:34:49
obstruct natural sunlight to the property's South most of edge. 01:34:55
Those calculations were done with a 26.27 degree. 01:35:02
Horizon. 01:35:09
And a 70 foot tall building, so again within 115 feet we will disturb natural light and going off of the site plan it looks like 01:35:10
there are three structures. 01:35:14
So as that sun rotates around, we're going to lose even more light because the surface area of those structures are going to just. 01:35:19
Obscure. 01:35:25
So. 01:35:28
Without an impact analysis by raising this another 10 feet, we're looking at property damages for everybody on that South. 01:35:30
We're also looking at. 01:35:37
Just. 01:35:39
I don't know, Misery. I don't know what else to call it. 01:35:43
People need sunlight, and in the winter, especially in Utah, we need that sunlight. And I don't want to stop anybody from making 01:35:46
money with their properties, but I also don't want to have somebody make me lose money or lose tenants or. 01:35:51
Lose anything with my investment? So. 01:35:57
Please vote no. 01:36:01
Please proceed with a deeper impact study if possible. 01:36:03
And thank you for the time. Thank you all for Thomas, thanks. Can I ask, Kash, do you know what the set back is of that building 01:36:07
regardless of the height? So the RMU does not have very strict setbacks for the proposed set back on that plan. So what they're 01:36:13
proposing, I just haven't measured up here. 01:36:20
And once again, this is not an approved site plan, So what you see here is still a concept and they may make tweaks and changes to 01:36:32
it, but this does show 100 and almost 120 feet from the corner of the building to the nearest residential. 01:36:39
So right here. 01:36:49
Is 100 and. 01:36:52
From this building to the nearest residential building and then from that fence line, it's 93. Looks like it's just over 93 feet. 01:36:53
Could you tell me how tall the townhomes are? Do you have an idea? Do you know that Morgan there? I I don't know. 01:37:04
So that's 120 feet and then? 01:37:14
OK. 01:37:19
Then an applicant has moved those buildings for the shop. This is actually, I think probably the 3rd, 4th or 5th plan, 5th plan. 01:37:23
It looks like that we reviewed with them. 01:37:28
To hopefully reduce a lot of the impact from that neighborhood, they have had other plans that have like pretty intense vehicular 01:37:34
uses like Dr. throughs and whatnot that would add quite a bit of impact. And so we we've been working with them, we we asked them 01:37:39
to push the Building 1 further up to Mill Rd. 01:37:44
So it's not just a giant sea of parking in the office complex. You actually have a pretty interesting architectural building. 01:37:50
Right on the lot. So we have been working with them and hoping that we can reduce a lot of those impacts, but. 01:37:57
Once again suggest. 01:38:05
This is not the site plan we're approving. It's just the zoning text amendment that could allow them to build these three office 01:38:07
buildings. 01:38:11
OK, it looks like we can go out of a public hearing. 01:38:25
That. 01:38:29
I'm sorry. I was going to tell you just because you asked about the height of the townhomes you're at, you're at three stories. So 01:38:31
I don't have like the dimension from grade up, but I mean just looking at you, you're probably, you know, 28 to 35 somewhere in 01:38:37
there. 01:38:42
I'm second on the motion that I do have a question, though, if we were going to continue. 01:38:50
Of this discussion. 01:38:57
Because the public had not seen the Planning Commission meeting minutes and they wanted more. 01:38:59
Would we close the public comment now and fulfill the discussion at that point and make sure whatever presentation was there or do 01:39:06
we continue the public hearing because? 01:39:11
They didn't have enough information in total. It depends on whether you want to continue both the item and the public hearing. 01:39:17
So you can do either of. 01:39:26
If you wish to continue both, then what you'll need to do when you make the motion to continue is. 01:39:28
Name a date certain for the public hearing. 01:39:34
If you wish to close the public hearing and just continue the action item. 01:39:37
Then. 01:39:42
Would do a motion to close the public hearing and then the action item can be postponed or pushed to any. 01:39:43
Future. 01:39:50
That won't keep you from receiving public comment, you just wouldn't do it as part of the public hearing. So it's it's up to the 01:39:52
council how you'd like to proceed. So my only question for this council is that we always allow public comment when people want 01:39:57
it, but when it's. 01:40:02
When a public hearing is out there, then people, they see it differently and I don't want them to think that we're stopping 01:40:07
comments when I haven't seen the Planning Commission. So if we do want to continue it, then I would like to have that discussion 01:40:11
now. 01:40:15
Before closing the public hearing. 01:40:20
And I take back my second. 01:40:24
It. 01:40:27
OK. 01:40:27
I follow Jamie's comments. We can hold public comment at any point in the future discussion of this in which we should. 01:40:34
But I think at this point we're done. 01:40:43
Present presentation until we have further information. 01:40:46
At that time, then we'll reappear and discuss it with the public. 01:40:50
OK. 01:40:56
So do you guys understand? So what he said is we always allow people to speak, is that what you're saying? So we we can close this 01:40:59
so that it can go on any date without us having to pay or to keep noticing it? 01:41:05
This way we can do. 01:41:11
If I may, if you're the plan is to continue the item to another date and you would like more information, I'd be specific as to 01:41:14
what way you'd like to see and they provided the perspectives showing kind of the balloon high. If you want to see one from the 01:41:20
north, you want to see solar access study, shadow study. 01:41:27
You know, it really depends. I wouldn't request that you'd be specific so the applicant knows what what to prepare for. We do have 01:41:34
a traffic impact study that could be provided as part of the staff report if you if you wanted to see that, that would be based 01:41:39
off of. 01:41:44
The site plan so I don't know how applicable because they they're not held to to a site plan unless it's approved. They're held 01:41:50
onto what what is under the zoning code. But if you want to see conceptually what it could be from the this current proposal then 01:41:56
that that that could play until it. So that that'd be my request is just be kind of specific as to what information you you would 01:42:02
like to see. 01:42:08
OK. If we do not continue the public hearing, I would like us to, when we post this post the link to the Planning Commission so 01:42:15
that they have access to what they did not have access to earlier, so that it's transparent and clear. 01:42:22
I think it's great to go ahead and continue this and have these more full discussions. I think this was robust discussion for me. 01:42:30
And so I'd like to do that if you guys feel good about the recommendation to post the link and then let's close the public or the 01:42:37
alternative is that we do take a vote tonight. Yeah, whatever you guys. 01:42:43
So my name is Ryan Pullman. I'm the property owner. 01:42:50
Just respect. 01:42:54
The idea that the sunlight is going to be blocked if you do, if you go off this gentleman's map. 01:42:55
If the property is 60 feet or 70. 01:43:03
And if it were less than the window. 01:43:06
That that's a new. 01:43:10
Sunlight's going to block no matter what and the person who lives to further to the north of these individuals. 01:43:12
Are accepting the exact same sun like blockage from their property. 01:43:20
Right. So we've. 01:43:26
Number of times I'm getting to this point. 01:43:29
And I'd prefer a few if at all possible for you guys to simply. 01:43:32
Take a vote and let us move on. We've come back now four times with, you know, one argument after another. We're trying to be 01:43:37
accommodating, you know, on all these fronts. 01:43:42
But if possible, we'd prefer that. If that's a field, accept that. OK. Thank you, Ryan. I do have a question. I'd like to respond 01:43:48
to that a little. 01:43:53
I was able to listen to your first Planning Commission meeting and I felt like it was a little, I was a little disappointed by it. 01:43:58
I felt like we could have used more information. 01:44:03
So I feel like when we had you come back, I was excited to hear that information and unfortunately I wasn't able to. 01:44:08
And then I was actually expecting to. 01:44:14
More than just balloons, I wanted to see some renderings of what kind of views we're looking at with an actual. 01:44:16
I've seen so many renderings, I didn't know I didn't. I didn't know why the balloons were chosen versus. 01:44:23
Having a structure, putting a building on. 01:44:29
I think that cash has those renderings of what they would look like. I think the balloons were the idea to actually give you the 01:44:33
live picture of actually to see the concern in the Planning Commission was. 01:44:39
I'm not going to be able to see the mountains. 01:44:45
And I I I think what and Marty correctly thought from off, I think what Marty is requesting is not just like your architectural 01:44:48
elevation but to actually like use something like. 01:44:54
SketchUp drop the model in and then provide the view perspective showing that the actual building is that. Well, yeah, the Fords, 01:45:00
the Fords did that really well for us. 01:45:05
They they gave us a couple different options throughout. 01:45:10
Their projects. And so I understand your frustration. I do. But for me, this is something that's a permanent structure that's 01:45:13
going to be there forever, and I don't want to rush it by two weeks if I don't feel like I have all the information I got you. 01:45:20
OK, I think let's start with this. Let's go out of a public hearing. 01:45:29
So I need a motion, so move. Thank you Amber. 01:45:35
Second, by Christie, all in favor. 01:45:39
All right, we're out of a public hearing. 01:45:42
Now the discussion is Council, would you like to continue it or would you like to vote on it? 01:45:45
I'm I'm actually ready to vote on it. I I've heard these residents and I. 01:45:50
Listen, you're backing up to people's properties and so I I feel really. 01:45:56
My heart is pulled by people that are backing onto this and you know, if I I would. 01:46:02
I would give anything to move the property next to the semi or the building next to my house back 10 feet. 01:46:08
It would completely change the view from my house. 01:46:14
Significantly actually. 01:46:17
Regardless if it's sky or mountain or whatever it is you're looking at, I mean, I think it's all subjective what we find beautiful 01:46:19
and as far as life's concerned, I mean. 01:46:23
My professional experience and a life gone by as a cinematographer, so I literally have experience painting with white and so 01:46:29
anybody that says white isn't important. 01:46:35
That is. 01:46:41
Ridiculous to me. So I definitely feel like these residents have a really good argument and I don't know. 01:46:43
We don't know as well, but I'm willing to wait For more information if they prefer. 01:46:53
Marty, did you have a gun? 01:47:02
Um. 01:47:04
I'm pleasantly surprised. Are pleasantly. 01:47:08
And happy to hear that you'll vote now and I would support. 01:47:11
Because I I haven't been happy with the plan altogether, but I thought if we just needed more information, but if my other council 01:47:14
members are prepared to vote no, I will support it. 01:47:18
I'll take more. 01:47:24
OK, do I have a motion? 01:47:27
Sure, I'll make a motion. I move to Deny Ordinance 2023 Dash 27. 01:47:31
OK. First by Christy tonight, second by Amber on. Well, this is done by Roll Call. 01:47:36
Hi. 01:47:45
Amber. 01:47:47
I'm just agreeing to know, right? You saying no to no? You said no to no. 01:47:49
A no vote. 01:47:57
Would be to in favor of the ordinance change and the height addition. 01:48:00
A yes vote would. 01:48:07
To deny the ordinance. 01:48:09
All right. 01:48:12
You said yes. 01:48:13
OK. 01:48:16
All right, so let's go ahead and move to discussion and action. 9.2 Sign Code Amendments, Ordinance 2023-17. 01:48:18
Miss Mumabi. 01:48:29
All right. Thank you. 01:48:45
Is this on? 01:48:48
We know how much Christy likes this sign code, so we try to have it on at least twice a month. 01:48:52
Just joking. 01:49:00
I do want to acknowledge. 01:49:03
I do want to acknowledge that we did make updates to a type of sign code with no problems at all. 01:49:06
In the consent items, that's right. Yeah. 01:49:13
Yeah, the municipal. 01:49:18
Great. Thank you. So yeah, the sign code overall the purpose was to help with like the development signage that we have in the in 01:49:22
the city. 01:49:26
We there's a there's a pretty big demand. We have very large parcels. So what this does is provide some clarity as to what the 01:49:31
construction signs. So when you come up to a property and it says you know such and such project is is being built, that's what 01:49:36
I'm talking about. 01:49:41
So I won't go through here. There's a lot of just kind of like small. 01:49:47
That as we see. 01:49:51
I want Cash's computer, so how do I? 01:49:56
There. 01:49:59
The scroll. 01:50:01
You roll down the roll down to like the main changes. 01:50:05
This one is to clarify. 01:50:15
Regulations for illuminated signs is something the Planning Commission has dealt with a lot, so I'll just read it out. Illuminate 01:50:19
signs located on a facade facing a residential structure within 150 feet may not be eliminated between the hours of 10:00 PM and 01:50:26
7:00 AM. So I think tonight you saw in the last item a good example of where you could have residential close to some commercial. 01:50:32
So this would help. So you don't have, you know, that light from a sign just going right into your window. 01:50:38
All right. So here we get down from our development commercial signs. This provides the 96 square feet area for those types of 01:50:53
signs. It does limit it to one year. 01:50:59
So this is, you know, like I said, for like coming soon. Yeah, yeah. Pulled away feels you have the forge you have in your 01:51:06
downtown. So this will provide the signs that the developers put up anyway. So it's like one of those things where they're, I mean 01:51:12
they're they come up anyway and you go, hey, let's come down. And you know, it's just it's like nonstop. So we we know that 01:51:18
there's a huge demand because every developer wants to show and then we also get questions from the public. 01:51:24
What's going on? That property? So this provides that ability for the developer to tell you what's being built. 01:51:31
And. 01:51:38
The other change. 01:51:39
Is going to be for development fencing. We're most likely going to require development fencing. Most developments do fence off 01:51:43
their their projects especially in the downtown where you're going to you're going to have residential there and in many cases 01:51:49
next to a project that's being constructed. And so I'm having the development fence is going to be important to kind of separate 01:51:56
the general public from from the construction activity. This provides the ability. 01:52:03
For there to be a wrap. And so you see this basically in most cities where there's a development project, the RAP is very similar 01:52:10
to a. 01:52:14
And. 01:52:19
Is. 01:52:56
Then forgive me if this is a funny question, but is there? 01:52:57
Is there kind of a way to protect the city if someone's put something up that's incredibly obnoxious, like? 01:53:02
I could picture some pretty hideous. 01:53:08
We do have like some. There's obviously like the freedom of speech and we are kind of controlled to some degree on the content of 01:53:12
sign. But I think there, and this might be a Jamie question for things that are like lewd or something like that or if you want. 01:53:19
There there are some exceptions. What you could do on the wrap is restrict it to images. 01:53:26
Like renderings of what is being constructed on the site. 01:53:33
And. 01:53:37
Advertisements for the businesses involved in the development and the construction of the site. 01:53:38
But not anything else. 01:53:44
That does limit the scope a little bit. 01:53:47
You're concerned, Maria. I mean, you may. It may be flashy colors that you don't like and somebody else does, or they don't like 01:53:51
when you do. But mostly I think that kind of covers my main concern. So under B, under subsection B9B, Development fence science 01:53:57
shall only contain information regarding this subject project. 01:54:03
Designers, contractors and site directional information. Yeah. So we we kind of put that in. 01:54:10
You know, I would say great minds think alike, Jamie. This is what? 01:54:17
He's a university. Be careful when you. 01:54:22
Morgan really is a phenomenal planner and he's got it in there. 01:54:28
I I hope somebody was saying. 01:54:34
And then the next one is in regards to wall and building murals. We do have one that is potential on a private building. 01:54:36
And So what this does is it provides the ability for the Planning Commission. 01:54:48
To to approve that gives a 30% allowance per facade. It does allow for if you want to increase that percentage on like your front 01:54:55
facade or a side to side that you can take kind of the allocation from other side. So the other side would be left blank and then 01:55:01
you put a, you know maybe a big mirror on the side. 01:55:08
And it allows for the Planning Commission to to increase that. The I have a question with that one too. Yeah, no problem. It says 01:55:16
private property. Could we also specify commercial? So we're not. 01:55:22
I mean with this protect so no residential murals are going. 01:55:29
Or is it in the section that? 01:55:34
No, you're right. We can, we can further strengthen. 01:55:37
If you just want to make a note of it to make sure it's in there somewhere, unless I mean. 01:55:48
Tiger that's important. So kind of limiting the murals on private buildings to those that are commercial in nature so you're not 01:55:53
having someone take like a single family home and they. 01:55:58
They do something. 01:56:04
We have stuff. We have someone in our neighborhood that didn't spring. 01:56:07
So Marty, does it, does it get at your concern? 01:56:10
State here that wall art and murals are not permitted on residential structures. 01:56:14
And then let me ask the follow up question, Do you also intend for that to apply to? 01:56:19
Multifamily housing. 01:56:25
Apartment buildings. 01:56:27
I think my main concern is single family because I think downtown there might be some really cool yeah and we actually like the 01:56:29
the developer considering it. It's in a mixed-use building where they they they would like to do a mural. So it's it's commercial 01:56:37
on ground floor. So single family would makes a lot more sense to let's insert a new lettered paragraph under 10. 01:56:45
That would say wall art and. 01:56:53
Shall not be permitted on single family residential structures. 01:56:56
And then this thing kind of spells out some of the duties that the Arch would have for our public facilities. So right now we're 01:57:03
going through the mural process with the water tank and the Arch provides a recommendation. That recommendation goes to the City 01:57:10
Council, it's it's your property, you know you are you are the the overseers of that that property. So you would be the 01:57:16
responsible for the final approval. So anyway that is how it's laid out and we can we can add that in. OK. 01:57:23
Questions. Discussion. 01:57:30
And this is a public hearing, too. 01:57:35
This one's not. 01:57:37
I don't have any concerns, but I kind of feel like there's other council members that have more. 01:57:48
More concerns regarding this code so. 01:57:55
Yeah, as long as we have the stipulation for. 01:57:59
Not in single. 01:58:03
When someone else wishes to raise a question, I have a motion. 01:58:08
Seeing no questions. 01:58:13
And then if we adopt Ordinance 2023-17, Zoning Context Amendments to Chapter 15.48 with. 01:58:15
Change for single family housing. 01:58:24
OK. I have a first. Can I have a second, A second? And this is done by roll call. Tice. Amber, hi. Yay. Marty. Christy. 01:58:29
Okay. 01:58:39
Thank you. OK, 9.3 discussing an action water tank mural approval. And Anna, our special events manager will be sharing the 01:58:40
recommendations that the Arts Commission. 01:58:46
Discussed. 01:58:53
I think it's. 01:59:30
Mr. Parent. 01:59:34
So I. 01:59:48
OK, so I have worked with the Arts Commission on this mural that will be on the water tank. 01:59:52
It's a massive It will be the biggest mural in Utah. 01:59:59
And. 02:00:03
We're hoping to have it completed by the end of 2023, with lighting being installed shortly after that. 02:00:05
The artist Al Jay and I won't try and announce. 02:00:11
His last name, but it's up there for you guys. 02:00:15
He's a resident of Vineyard and he's been great to work with. 02:00:18
The Arts Commission has an official recommendation based on discussion, so the Arts Commission held a work session. 02:00:22
To discuss potential elements that could be involved in the mural, and then also had another meeting to vote on the recommendation 02:00:31
for council. 02:00:35
And then we also collected survey data from our residents for suggestions from our community. 02:00:39
And I am just going to jump right into it with the. 02:00:48
Carol. 02:00:53
So after the first meeting. 02:00:57
The work session, the first work section, there was a lot of brainstorming that was done with the Arts Commission and there's 02:01:00
talks of having Fisherman tractor. 02:01:04
Crops. 02:01:10
Fish and cat. 02:01:10
And then there's also a lot of heavy discussion. 02:01:13
Geneva and wanting Utah Lake to be the center focal point of the mural with Vineyard really big. 02:01:17
So this is what algae came up with. 02:01:28
Based on that work session. 02:01:31
And the Arts Commission reviewed this and created a few changes. 02:01:34
And from there, Al Jay came up with two different. 02:01:38
So this is the. 02:01:47
Based on the recommendation from the Arts Council. 02:01:50
They made a few changes. 02:01:54
With the fish being a June sucker fish and then also changing the bird. 02:01:57
And adding the cauldron from Geneva still over here and some grapes. 02:02:05
And then there's also a second. 02:02:09
With those very similar elements, but just a few changes. 02:02:13
So we kept the original fish, not the June sucker fish. 02:02:17
Actually, it's. 02:02:23
Bonneville. Trout. Bonneville something. Trout. Yeah, so still. 02:02:25
One. OK, good. You're out in your head. 02:02:33
Then just move the grapes. Oh, I didn't talk about the cow. They added the cow in to show farming and vineyard. 02:02:38
Geneva still they removed the cauldron. 02:02:45
All together and added back in the people and then a pheasant to represent. 02:02:48
The pheasants and vineyard. 02:02:53
Algae was here, but he had to leave early and he wanted to give him. Have me just share a few comments that he had about the 02:02:56
mural. 02:03:00
So he said that he wanted to stay away from street art and the cartoonish look and focus more on realistic art, and that's what 02:03:04
he's known for. And with it being realistic, too many faces give it a billboard. 02:03:10
Look. So he kind of stayed away from faces. 02:03:17
And he wanted to focus more on historical landmarks, keeping it safe soon, because no one can argue the facts of the landmarks. 02:03:22
Umm when looking at a lot of the mur. 02:03:30
From other cities their broad landscape but you need to get up close to see and the small small there's small small details. 02:03:33
You have to be close to see those details. 02:03:42
He wanted to make this mural unreal, so you can see every detail of the shadows up close, but from far away you can see everything 02:03:44
also. 02:03:48
He said that when talking to all of his mural friends. They're all blown away that he's going to be doing this. 02:03:53
And he's so excited about it. 02:04:00
That's all I have. 02:04:03
OK. Any questions, Any thoughts? 02:04:05
I'm not going to argue art. 02:04:09
The Fool's choice. 02:04:12
But I would like to see a match of the font with what we. 02:04:16
Tyson You mean the vineyard? Like the same fondant vineyard, yeah? 02:04:22
I also I kind of I know that putting city in there or not is kind of an option. 02:04:26
A part of me and I'm I'm with ties. I don't want to argue art. 02:04:34
But a part of me thinks it would be good to put Vineyard City because. 02:04:38
We're going to also have Utah City and I just think that. 02:04:43
I don't want people to think it's a vineyard. I want them to know that it's Vineyard City. 02:04:46
I don't know. 02:04:50
But it's not really a big deal either way. I have a question for you already. So when we named the city and we changed it from 02:04:52
Town, we had an option to change it to Vineyard City and we changed it to Vineyard and we scrapped City. 02:04:59
And I would add that everybody on Arch unanimously didn't want to take it off, All right, I respect that. Then they all want to 02:05:06
stay connected removed too. 02:05:10
And I would add that Sarah Kay is our is the chair of the Archbishop. Thank you for being here. 02:05:15
Yeah, it was discussed. Just vineyard big across. I was like nothing else. 02:05:21
I guess I'll go. I love the I love the flag change when it goes all the way behind. I love the trout, the fisherman. 02:05:31
I'm I guess the only area. 02:05:42
Umm. 02:05:45
I I kind of, I don't have strong opinions, but the area with the still male workers, I feel like I would be OK if there. 02:05:46
Like, not the final one, I guess That one's not my favorite one. That's what I guess I'll say. 02:05:55
So let me pull up the other one. 02:06:00
This is the cauldron. 02:06:06
Or the one that was presented but then? 02:06:10
Not. 02:06:14
The changes. 02:06:17
Recommended to add the cauldron or. 02:06:19
Change the section a little bit in that image. It looks a little blurry, but that's just the image, right? Right. Yeah, and it 02:06:22
will all the rough edges. Also he said to not concentrate on this because obviously nothing. It will all be. 02:06:29
I'm an artist, but it won't be hard mine. 02:06:38
I I think I prefer that image. 02:06:43
I mean with the flag instead and just pretend that's done. 02:06:46
I have a question. Did the Arts Commission discuss doing the We have the Genie River store down here, which I like. We have some 02:06:50
of the workers here, which I think is like, did they discuss doing the Geneva resort at all? 02:06:56
That came through here just because we. 02:07:04
If we're taking history and then we're building on that history, that could be something that kind of shows what we're building 02:07:07
into. We're like bringing that back, that resort that was right in this area. 02:07:11
Yeah, it was briefly talked about. I don't correct me if I'm wrong, but the feeling that I got from Arts Commission was that they 02:07:17
felt that Geneva Steel was a very distinct feature that people outside of the Vineyard community know. Vineyard had this, the 02:07:24
steel mill. Yeah. And I mean it is 75% of OK. 02:07:32
OK. 02:07:41
I would prefer the third rendering. I like having the people. I think that that's a very important element for me. 02:07:44
And I think it all fits nicely together. Wait, which one is that? 02:07:51
The bottom Yeah, I like that one. 02:07:54
OK. 02:08:00
Any other questions or discussion? 02:08:02
I don't want to say I hate people. 02:08:08
I really do. I don't know. I think that. 02:08:11
I feel like that picture of the two people walking, I feel like I've seen that picture before. Yes, that's an actual photo. And so 02:08:15
that's why I feel like having the two people versus sport. But it sounds like we're kind of split on that. Sarah Kay, do you the 02:08:21
image he overlaid on the last one, is that also a historic photo or does he draw that himself? Do you can you verify that as our 02:08:26
resident? 02:08:32
Histor. 02:08:39
So I'm looking where the cauldron is or where the. 02:08:40
Do you see how he's overlaid 2 images there on the right? 02:08:44
So you have the workers in the front that are melding something and then behind it is that other photo that we have of the 02:08:48
workers, you know, carrying their lunches to the mill. 02:08:53
I don't know about this one, but the one with just the two people, he said. That is, and actually, if you guys remember, stand. 02:09:00
Painting upstairs, that's the same. 02:09:08
But I don't know. So you're just saying? 02:09:14
How to leave the one historic photo and not overlay it with extra workers? 02:09:16
Yeah, that's fine for me. 02:09:23
I feel like. 02:09:26
It makes it. 02:09:28
I question what I'm looking at and it takes me a second, whereas the one image by itself is clearly a metal with workers going to 02:09:30
work. 02:09:33
So you're saying the third image X, the two people in the front. I like that. I like the third image and I am fine with getting 02:09:38
rid of the two people and the the like cauldron type thing down here is what you guys are referring to also, right? So you just. 02:09:46
I thought we were talking about coming to the microphone. 02:09:54
I thought we had talked about the actual ladle. 02:10:00
Yeah. So that's the other one. 02:10:04
Mm-hmm. 02:10:07
The the other option he gave. 02:10:08
With this one. 02:10:11
OK. Yes, I like that one. 02:10:14
You like the cauldron? You do. I mean, I think the cauldron is cool. I think the way he would paint, that would probably look 02:10:18
really cool. 02:10:22
But I mean, I want to respect the people conversation, especially because it won't have the grapes there. 02:10:27
Yeah, he moves the grapes over here so you could do. 02:10:37
The cauldron. 02:10:42
And then no people at all. 02:10:45
It's. 02:10:50
All right, counsel. What do you guys think? 02:10:53
We have some people that like Cauldron. Some people like nothing. I would prefer not the Cauldron. I like the cow and I like the 02:10:58
Genevas taking care of on this side. And we have the the actual cauldrons and what are they really called? 02:11:05
On the cow right there, I don't. I think we're talking about is we all like the bottom concepts. 02:11:13
We're just deciding. 02:11:20
I I like this picture. I like this image. I do not like this boring. If you want to put this smeltering pot in here, I like the 02:11:23
smaller one. I I don't necessarily like, yeah. 02:11:30
And my preference is still. 02:11:42
As well. Yeah, I like that. 02:11:44
For lots of reasons. 02:11:48
And then I like the calorie here. 02:11:50
Yeah, yeah, no, I I still agree. I like this bottom concept. I just like to clean. I just did one image by itself. You are still 02:11:52
like the last one. 02:11:57
How fast people are going to be able to see what they're looking at. All right, great, let's make a motion. 02:12:03
I moved to approve. 02:12:10
I probably should do this. 02:12:12
I moved to approve the artwork for the water tank mural, the third rendering with an adjustment to the. 02:12:16
The font for Vineyard being Vineyards font as that's on the logo or vineyards and then for the still mill image on the from the 02:12:25
first rendering onto the third rendering. 02:12:32
With just two people, not four. Yeah, let me just clarify just to make sure. 02:12:43
We like this corner right here with the two people. 02:12:49
And that and other than that, we're going to keep the rest of this one. 02:12:54
The. 02:13:00
Changing the lettering? Yep. 02:13:01
And for sure keeping the flag all the way over. I think that's so pretty 2nd. 02:13:04
Sorry. Do you want Sir Kay, do you want to come up here? 02:13:13
Just. 02:13:18
So when we were in our meeting and we were looking at the tractor, I I remember growing up that there was a community tractor but 02:13:21
a vineyard meaning that. 02:13:25
One family couldn't buy a tractor of themselves, so they came together and bought a community tractor. 02:13:30
So I did some asking around because one of the things we want to do is promote, you know, just that feeling of community. 02:13:35
So that that tractor is a real tractor. 02:13:41
It's 75 years old and it's still working. I talked to the owner and you know. 02:13:45
It is a tractor. It will go in the same place. It's just going to be a different it's going to look different. 02:13:52
It is orange. 02:13:58
No, no, no, it all I'm saying is that. 02:14:01
All I'm saying is that LJ, when I I took a picture and sent it to him, he said that it out, it would actually look better, it 02:14:05
would pop more on the mural and it's just a rendering of the original community tractor. 02:14:11
Man, I thought you were gonna like we were in a landscape with that tractor. 02:14:20
I was getting really excited. 02:14:25
Add props. 02:14:26
We ever wanted to use it in a parade. It's still a working tractor. 02:14:29
You know what I mean if you wanted to bring passing present. 02:14:32
Sorry, hang on just a second. 02:14:37
Use your mic. 02:14:40
Yes. 02:14:42
Did not want to do that. Yeah, it looks great. 02:14:49
I think that was so great. 02:14:54
So Marty, in your motion you would need to add that with with the director including. 02:14:58
Including the change to the tractor being the historical vineyard community tractor. 02:15:06
OK. First by Marty, second by Christy, all in favor? 02:15:16
Excellent. We need a motion to go into. 02:15:22
Procession so move you need to move to go into a closed session. 02:15:26
Regarding. 02:15:32
August 30th, 822 Directly after this meeting. Directly after this meeting. 02:15:36
To discuss. 02:15:43
Yes, a discussion of the character, professional competence, or physical or mental health of an individual. 02:15:46
Yeah, good. Can I get a second? OK, all in favor. 02:15:56
Roll Call Price. Amber. Yay. Marty Christy, OK. 02:16:01
Thank you. 02:16:08
I moved. I need a motion to return. I'm going to close the meeting. Thanks. In a second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you all. 02:16:16
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