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Transcript
| This is the Vineyard Planning Commission. We'll get right into it. We'll have an opening. | 00:00:02 | |
| By Anthony. I don't know what you want to do. OK, An opening prayer by Anthony. | 00:00:09 | |
| Father in Heaven, we're grateful to be gathered here together and to discuss Vineyard City. | 00:00:15 | |
| Please help us to. | 00:00:22 | |
| Know what's best for the residents and for the city long term and that we can make wise decisions that are based on feedback from | 00:00:25 | |
| the community and also from the competent staff that we have here. I say this name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. Thank you, | 00:00:31 | |
| Anthony. All right. Moving to minutes of for review and approval. Cool thing about the minutes now is it's just recorded basically | 00:00:38 | |
| so everything's in there so do I have. | 00:00:44 | |
| Open session. | 00:00:52 | |
| I think there's no concession. | 00:00:54 | |
| Yes, sorry. So yeah, yeah, I guess we'll move into the open session. So for the open session, we have a couple of things on the | 00:00:55 | |
| agenda today. If one of the things that you were wanting to make a comment about is in the agenda, we have a public hearing and | 00:01:01 | |
| you'll have an opportunity to make a comment then I assume you guys are here for potentially the wall ordinance that's passing am | 00:01:07 | |
| I are? | 00:01:12 | |
| Well, OK, Whirlpool and moral support. So if you guys have other comments not retaining to the wall or the pool, you can make them | 00:01:19 | |
| right now. If not, we're going to have a chance for you guys to make public comments when we move into that. | 00:01:27 | |
| Cool. Did you have any public comments that you wanted? OK, just come up here to the podium. State your name and yeah, and your | 00:01:35 | |
| neighborhood. | 00:01:41 | |
| My name is Sherry Teschner. Is there something? Yeah, just make sure the lights on. | 00:01:51 | |
| Can you hear me now? | 00:01:56 | |
| Feel like a Verizon? Can you hear me now? | 00:01:58 | |
| Anyway, my name is Sherry Tester, I live at 188 S Holdaway Rd. and I am one of the original people that lived here. | 00:02:03 | |
| So I was on the Planning Commission myself, one of the original few from about. | 00:02:14 | |
| Somewhere around 1995 to 2006. We have lived here 28 years. | 00:02:23 | |
| We've lived very peaceably. | 00:02:29 | |
| And enjoyed that piece on Holloway Rd. until Glade Holdaway. | 00:02:33 | |
| Sold and subdivided his property. | 00:02:39 | |
| And. | 00:02:43 | |
| While we were gone on vacation. | 00:02:49 | |
| Which we have rarely done. | 00:02:52 | |
| One of our neighbors, the tomato, bows. | 00:02:56 | |
| Have dug onto our property, dug up our fence line. | 00:03:00 | |
| Offense broke the fence, broke the post. | 00:03:06 | |
| And build. It proceeded to build. | 00:03:11 | |
| Their retaining law. | 00:03:15 | |
| And he said he wanted to put it there and he wanted to put it on the outside of the property line. It has been surveyed and | 00:03:18 | |
| according to the law, which I don't know if you are aware of or no, I don't know if. | 00:03:25 | |
| Professional planners or not, or if they have that these days. | 00:03:34 | |
| It is against the law to do that. | 00:03:42 | |
| To it was destruction of property. | 00:03:46 | |
| And then he is encroaching. | 00:03:50 | |
| On our property. | 00:03:52 | |
| And it was. | 00:03:55 | |
| By it is called boundary by acquiescence. | 00:03:58 | |
| And that means our fence line was the property line and he has destroyed it. I do have pictures of it before and after. | 00:04:03 | |
| He has seen it and he has seen it. | 00:04:15 | |
| Morgan was out there when the very first. | 00:04:19 | |
| Began And I guess that's the end of us taking vacations. I can't go anywhere because somebody is going to do something to our | 00:04:22 | |
| property is not fair and it is not right. | 00:04:28 | |
| And there's nothing, no satisfaction that I've been able to get out of this city or town. I'm not even sure what we are anymore. | 00:04:36 | |
| We're a city now. | 00:04:45 | |
| We used to be a town. | 00:04:47 | |
| And because there aren't any ordinances. | 00:04:50 | |
| That stop these people from doing this, destroying a fence line. | 00:04:56 | |
| And he and. | 00:05:02 | |
| His arrogance. | 00:05:06 | |
| His piety. | 00:05:07 | |
| And his bullying I don't appreciate. | 00:05:09 | |
| And I don't think it's right that he gets away with it. | 00:05:13 | |
| And the city continues to tell me there's nothing that they can do about it because there are no ordinances about fence lines. So | 00:05:18 | |
| he put up. | 00:05:23 | |
| Retaining wall which is made of. | 00:05:28 | |
| Ray, what ties? Is that what they're called Timbers? | 00:05:32 | |
| And those railroad ties have chunks missing out of them. | 00:05:36 | |
| They are not level, they are not straight. | 00:05:40 | |
| They when it rained the last few days, the water and the mud has gone down to the bottom and sometimes through the Timbers. | 00:05:44 | |
| And going through. | 00:05:55 | |
| And so it could make a river. Not only that, it could make that wall weak. | 00:05:57 | |
| And it could make it very dangerous. | 00:06:05 | |
| We talked to him and asked him to put. | 00:06:08 | |
| And shove his because he is over a construction company. | 00:06:11 | |
| Asked him if he could take his heavy equipment and push the wall back and push it back over a few inches. | 00:06:18 | |
| So that he is not on top of our. | 00:06:28 | |
| Our fence line anymore. | 00:06:32 | |
| And. | 00:06:35 | |
| He said yes, I can do that and he didn't. He made it look like he was doing that, but he didn't do it. And then he put in a metal | 00:06:37 | |
| post to replace our wooden post. | 00:06:43 | |
| That had barbed wire on him. | 00:06:51 | |
| And. | 00:06:53 | |
| He not only didn't put him back where they were or on where our wooden fence was, he put them several inches on our side of the | 00:06:55 | |
| property line, thus destroying again the property line. | 00:07:04 | |
| It is by and there are laws about this. | 00:07:13 | |
| I. | 00:07:19 | |
| Really do appreciate the comment with the meeting. | 00:07:23 | |
| You're pushing it. | 00:07:35 | |
| Yeah, and I'm telling you kindly, I'm about finished, but I think it's unfair what this city has done to me. | 00:07:38 | |
| And we have been here. We've been good taxpayers for over 28 years. | 00:07:48 | |
| Right. We're not putting your question that you've heard this several times. You guys have it. Yeah. So as far as the Planning | 00:07:54 | |
| Commission goes, if there are ordinances, those are things that we can do as far as I. | 00:08:01 | |
| Making a new ordinance. | 00:08:10 | |
| As with a situation like this, the only thing we could be able to do, I guess would be to have different wall requirements as far | 00:08:13 | |
| as materials and stuff like that. But encroaching on somebody'd property or even not holding the water on on their own property. | 00:08:20 | |
| Those are there are legal things you can take as a Planning Commission. We don't have power to go out and and I'm sorry, I don't | 00:08:28 | |
| I'm not aware of who you people are and I'm sorry. So can you tell me who you are where the Planning Commission we help. | 00:08:35 | |
| Are you brought in from the community? Are you hired by? | 00:08:44 | |
| The town, are you getting paid by the town? What what is your education? Yeah, we're all residents were picked by the mayor. This. | 00:08:47 | |
| Yeah, the mayor. I know been through that. So basically we have ordinances come come to us and we talk about different things such | 00:08:55 | |
| as walls and stuff like that. And then we. Yeah. And then we give our suggestions to the City Council and they and they approve | 00:09:02 | |
| them or they deny them even if we reject it, the City Council could still. | 00:09:10 | |
| Approve it. So we have very little power here in the Planning Commission. | 00:09:18 | |
| I understand. And I was directed tonight, today I've been on the phone a couple of times with a couple of people and I've been on | 00:09:23 | |
| the the phone with a Dave Church who used to be the the lawyer here and he asked me what is Vineyard City doing about this? | 00:09:35 | |
| Nothing. | 00:09:48 | |
| So question for staff I. | 00:09:50 | |
| So you're aware of the situation, it sounds like he was out there, so is the mayor, so were these two guys. So from like a | 00:09:54 | |
| property issue standpoint, someones over there actual property line there, We don't have to have an ordinance for that. There's | 00:10:00 | |
| there's legal recourse that way, correct already in place. | 00:10:05 | |
| They're building because it doesn't. | 00:10:13 | |
| An underwall that support it. They have a retaining wall and that only a building permit only kicks in at 4 feet. And so we had | 00:10:17 | |
| our building official go out and measure it because that, that would provide us at least an application where we could request | 00:10:25 | |
| information like, you know, a survey to make sure it's on it's within their their property line and it doesn't require a billing | 00:10:32 | |
| permit. He determined that it's under 4 feet and so the city can't require 48 inches, right. | 00:10:39 | |
| Mm-hmm. He's a 44 inches. He made sure I told you he, this man knows what he's doing. So at least from the building from the | 00:10:46 | |
| standpoint we, we don't have a mechanism in, in that regard to require to go through a process. And and I, you know, and I, I, I | 00:10:53 | |
| am sorry about about the situation. I mean it, it sounds like you you're going through some tough things with your neighbor on the | 00:11:00 | |
| City side. We're only able to under our authority. | 00:11:08 | |
| Granted us through the state. | 00:11:15 | |
| Able to enforce our codes and so we and so we don't have something specific that they're doing because we can't determine from the | 00:11:17 | |
| City side whether or not that retaining wall is on their property. It falls under, under what's called just a civil matter. And | 00:11:25 | |
| that's where one property owner can hire legal counsel and then they they can they can work through the the legal system. That's | 00:11:32 | |
| why we have the, the city isn't like we don't have anything within our core. | 00:11:40 | |
| In our code that authorizes us to go on to make that type of determination, it's a civil issue between two properties. So I mean, | 00:11:47 | |
| obviously not an ideal scenario that we don't want to have repeat. So from a staff standpoint, are there ordinances that we could | 00:11:53 | |
| craft that would allow the city to better ensure that things like this don't continue to happen? I mean, if you want to do more | 00:11:59 | |
| from a regulatory standpoint where we had some sort of we could put eyeballs like on a permit, you can require a permit for | 00:12:05 | |
| fences. | 00:12:11 | |
| I mean, you know, just just in general, because right now the only fence that offenses that require permits or anything over 8 | 00:12:18 | |
| feet or a retaining wall that's that's four feet or more. And so from a fence standpoint, like that's how we could that would | 00:12:24 | |
| extend. I'm just thinking of ramifications of that any, yeah, any final fence going on. | 00:12:31 | |
| What about a fence that's made out of or a retaining wall that's made out of cement or something so that it doesn't leak and start | 00:12:38 | |
| a river down? Our engineering requirements for retaining walls, even sub 48 entities and even even water retention. By law people | 00:12:46 | |
| are supposed to retain the water on their properties. So if water that's right. | 00:12:53 | |
| Good job to your yard then. | 00:13:01 | |
| Yeah, there's. It's also civil. | 00:13:04 | |
| Did you? | 00:13:08 | |
| No, OK. | 00:13:09 | |
| All right, just to follow, just to follow up with that. And as soon as when it comes down to land development or any kind of | 00:13:11 | |
| changes, I mean the essence on, on the retaining walls and so forth is not to change the flow of water from, you know, the flow of | 00:13:18 | |
| water in terms of in terms of being able to shed water on that as well as any if the, if the individual and it's not isolated to, | 00:13:26 | |
| you know, this municipality wouldn't be isolated to the state. | 00:13:33 | |
| Across the nation in terms when it comes down to. | 00:13:41 | |
| If a popular owner feels that they're being burdened by their neighbor from, you know, from shedding water, that that turns into a | 00:13:46 | |
| civil matter as well. Actually, that's very, that's very common across the and that's how it's across the across the nation. | 00:13:53 | |
| Yeah, I understand that, but there's got to be some city. | 00:14:01 | |
| That in this state that has codes for fences and retaining walls, that Vineyard could get some type of an idea to be able to write | 00:14:06 | |
| something similar. | 00:14:12 | |
| That can protect people like me that used to live in the country and love it here. | 00:14:20 | |
| Instead of them coming in and taking my country away. | 00:14:26 | |
| Sherry, have you And I do apologize because? | 00:14:32 | |
| We could go over that. | 00:15:05 | |
| I mean, the point is, is that from the City side, we have looked into it and. | 00:15:08 | |
| We don't have a code that way we can enforce. And so if you feel like, if you've done a survey of your property and you're able | 00:15:13 | |
| to, to clearly show that that person has built on your land without your permission, then that's, that's a, that's a very | 00:15:20 | |
| straightforward civil case. And I, I would recommend that you have your legal counsel contact them, showing them I already have | 00:15:27 | |
| OK, then that's and had them sent a letter and they have until about somewhere around the 20th of August. | 00:15:34 | |
| To respond and get it done properly. And you know, apparently they think that they've done it properly, telling a timber fence | 00:15:42 | |
| that leaks and has mud flowing through it proper. | 00:15:49 | |
| And like I said, he was pretty, pretty wise in in his tricks to make it 44 inches and not go over that. So he doesn't have to get | 00:15:57 | |
| any engineering or footings or anything like that. And that's not right. Something needs to be done. And it seems like these are | 00:16:06 | |
| the people where I need to start. They can do it. So right now, even if we were to approve something tonight, which we can't do. | 00:16:15 | |
| And I understand that. So thank you. Thank you so much for your comments. It's something that we'll take into consideration for | 00:16:24 | |
| future ordinances. | 00:16:26 | |
| As far as retaining and things like that, just to respond to Morgan's response was saying that it has to go on the property line. | 00:16:30 | |
| I did like when I was told today that. | 00:16:40 | |
| This is I don't work for the county. I don't know what the county does the county recorder and I'm going. | 00:16:45 | |
| Really, you don't know what the county recorder does. You guys can't get some kind of a map or something that says what the lines | 00:16:53 | |
| are. I did it in 5 minutes calling the county recorder and got a copy of that map and I was going to send it to someone up here. | 00:17:00 | |
| Yeah. So thank you so much for your comments. There's there's really nothing that we can do right now. And really it's only | 00:17:07 | |
| supposed to be 3 minutes and it's been 15 minutes. Thank you. | 00:17:15 | |
| So much I'm glad I was able to get out most of what I wanted to. It needed to be heard and it needed to be said and something | 00:17:22 | |
| needs to be done. I hope you'll do that. Thank you for time. All right, thank you. And I'm really sorry that happened. That must | 00:17:29 | |
| be really difficult for you and your family. Your husband and we will definitely take this into conversation later. There were | 00:17:35 | |
| dairy farms here when we moved here. | 00:17:42 | |
| So sorry, thank you for letting us know. | 00:17:49 | |
| All right, so moving into minutes for review and approval 3.1, July 21st, 2021. Do I have a approval for those minutes? Yeah. So I | 00:17:52 | |
| was here that night and I was able to review what we covered in that meeting and the the notes looked good to me. So I make a | 00:18:00 | |
| motion that we approve those minutes from July 21st. Thank you. Anthony, do I have a second? I'll second All in favor, aye. All | 00:18:07 | |
| right, moving into business item 4.1. | 00:18:14 | |
| Zoning text amendment. Do I want to have you, do I move it into a public hearing now and then have you present it and then you can | 00:18:22 | |
| open the public. That's what the council does. They open the public hearing at the very beginning in case people want to comment | 00:18:29 | |
| on. But typically you would let Brian go through it. But if someone has a question. | 00:18:36 | |
| To open the public hearing for business item 4.1 all right there a second second all in favor, aye All right so. | 00:18:45 | |
| You taking this overtime? I believe Morgan's doing the first time and I'll do the the other two items and then you guys, if you | 00:18:54 | |
| guys have any questions or something, just raise your hand and come up to the podium and. | 00:18:59 | |
| Relax here so you can make some comments or ask some questions. | 00:19:06 | |
| Are you on the? | 00:19:12 | |
| Do you want to talk about those small amendments? | 00:19:16 | |
| There's not a lot of them. Do you want to just go to the text and then zoom up? Okay, sure. | 00:19:23 | |
| So this is the ordinance that Liz Hart, when she was employed as a senior planner here before she left, she was putting this | 00:19:28 | |
| together. So we had a work session on this already. And what this does is the the the primary thing we can we can jump into that | 00:19:33 | |
| I. | 00:19:39 | |
| Or you can just take it through her. There's just a few of them. OK, So what this one is, is for the classification of a of a | 00:19:46 | |
| monument sign for multi tenant. She had listed increasing the height for a multi tenant sign from 10 feet to 18 feet with the sign | 00:19:53 | |
| standard waiver to allow it to go up to 20 feet. We felt like 18 feet was actually probably too high and this is more of just a | 00:20:00 | |
| staffing. So if you want we could bump it back up to the 18 feet. | 00:20:08 | |
| Them but. | 00:20:16 | |
| State Street and I know arm is actually doing quite a bit to try and and reduce the amount of pole signs that they have on State | 00:20:47 | |
| Street. So that that was kind of the overall theme is like, you know, 18 feet just seemed pretty high and then a two feet | 00:20:54 | |
| difference to get up to 20 feet. So we dropped it down to the 15 feet and then. | 00:21:01 | |
| What she had was the definition on the far right cell. You see it says from three to two tenants. | 00:21:08 | |
| And so now the classification for a multi tenant sign would be just two tenants on the sign instead of set of three. So for | 00:21:17 | |
| reference, like the the Alloy Maverick sign, yeah, that would be a multi. And how how tall is that one? Do you know? Did they get | 00:21:22 | |
| all the way up to 20 feet, Brian? | 00:21:27 | |
| I believe they went up to 18. | 00:21:34 | |
| Yeah. So I mean, that's a pretty good reference though. Yeah, you had a couple to so, so we felt like that was so basically they'd | 00:21:37 | |
| get the 15 as a permitted use and then they'd have to go through science and waiver if they wanted to get up to the 20 feet. | 00:21:44 | |
| So any questions about that, that piece of it? | 00:21:52 | |
| Keep rolling. All right, So this one, OK, this is the big one. As you know, we had the Golf Club that was chatting with us and | 00:21:56 | |
| we're still, we're believe it, we're still in our conversation. You can't really say anything but but yeah, good, good things | 00:22:03 | |
| happen happening. Hopefully we're able to see that come to fruition. But this amendment would be to allow a sign to be sized | 00:22:09 | |
| according to the facade. | 00:22:16 | |
| That is being represented in elevation. | 00:22:23 | |
| So right now. | 00:22:26 | |
| We have. | 00:22:28 | |
| The overall cap of 60 feet Science Center waiver allows you to get up to is that 120 feet what you got visiting a lot of time? | 00:22:31 | |
| Sorry my my Internet is not kicking on here so I can't pull it up. All right. So what this does is if you have a large facade, | 00:22:38 | |
| your sign can then program and you can scale appropriately with that with that front side. I know we've been through a full work | 00:22:45 | |
| session on us already, but it seemed like the Planning Commission felt like that that was. | 00:22:52 | |
| You know, pretty appropriate because in the downtown that has kind of its own sign thing, but it also references this code, you're | 00:23:00 | |
| going to get some really large buildings there. And so having signs that can, you know, that aren't so constrained. So if you have | 00:23:05 | |
| a A-90. | 00:23:11 | |
| Foot high building, which you're probably going to get around the downtown, you're going to get, you know, anywhere from 6 to 10 | 00:23:17 | |
| floors most likely, you know, having very limited sign area on each facade, it's going to, it's going to hurt 'cause you're going | 00:23:22 | |
| to have a multi story, multi tenant. | 00:23:27 | |
| And so being able to have people to appropriately kind of attach the signs where they want. And then also this provides a | 00:23:32 | |
| secondary facade. So it allows for signs to be located around the building at 5%. You can then move around the signage. But as you | 00:23:38 | |
| see kind of the bottom of the paragraph, you can't go about 15% on the front. So if you if you don't want and you say you have a | 00:23:44 | |
| really great front with a lot of customer traffic, you probably want more signage there than you would on your side or your rear | 00:23:50 | |
| that might be. | 00:23:56 | |
| Facing you know, another building or something like that. So this allows. | 00:24:02 | |
| Flexibility within a second, but provides that that overall percentage cap and then beyond signs are a prohibited sign. However, | 00:24:09 | |
| we change that to be 6 square feet or higher is prohibited, but we wanted to provide people the ability to. | 00:24:18 | |
| Or three square feet. There's three square feet, but it allows people to do like the open close signs. And also if they had | 00:24:29 | |
| something small they wanted to put in a, in a, in a window of that that was lit neon wise to help kind of draw some eyeballs, We | 00:24:33 | |
| thought that that'd be appropriate. | 00:24:38 | |
| But still, 3 square feet, you're talking. Yeah, very fairly small, yeah. | 00:24:43 | |
| Then there's just other section on the incidental science. Not over six square feet, so that's the same thing. | 00:24:47 | |
| Do you have any questions about the I remember talking about this previously and it made sense if you had a big building with like | 00:24:54 | |
| a tiny sign. Yeah, kind of weird, right, Right. So, yeah, I think it looks good. Yeah. We're recommending approval then. So I was | 00:25:01 | |
| wondering, so there's the front and the secondary And what about like a can you have a sign on 1/3 wall or how does that work? | 00:25:08 | |
| Yeah, yeah. So secondary basically how we're taking that to to mean is. | 00:25:16 | |
| It's any of the other, any of your other facades are going to be a secondary. You could have 5% on each side. Yeah, yeah. And it | 00:25:23 | |
| provides the ability to say, OK, and we can, we can then, you know, jump that up on the on the primary facade if we want to. So | 00:25:31 | |
| you can take it off your rear throat on your front, but you can't, you can't go above 15 feet or 15% on the front. OK. So, so | 00:25:38 | |
| there's still a cap. So potentially somebody could do 15 on the front and 10 on the back. Yeah. OK. | 00:25:45 | |
| Because if they took that, they took the two sides and right over, you know, and that's, that's a good point. I mean, we could | 00:25:54 | |
| kind of clarify that instead of saying secondary, maybe there's a different word that we could use. | 00:26:00 | |
| That's not like. | 00:26:06 | |
| Calling out like a. | 00:26:08 | |
| I don't know like a chronology or, or like, you know, maybe it's like a. | 00:26:11 | |
| I don't know like a non accessory? Well what's something that's not primary, not incidental accessory? | 00:26:15 | |
| Additional additional additional facade Would that work 5% of the additional facade of the building? | 00:26:25 | |
| OK, Well, if you're OK with that, you can recommend approval with us modifying the secondary facade language and then we can get | 00:26:36 | |
| that to the City Council. Has this posed an issue up to this point? I know we really only have like that Home builders association | 00:26:41 | |
| and. | 00:26:45 | |
| I don't know if there's any other really. | 00:26:51 | |
| Multi tenant, well, you'll find most, it seems like most people come in for a Science Center waiver and a lot of it is formed just | 00:26:54 | |
| additional wall signs because they want to do more than the the front. The UCU building wanted 1/4 exterior elevation sign, wall | 00:27:02 | |
| sign and then we we were going to ask them to go through a sign standard waiver. So with this they wouldn't have to be approved. | 00:27:10 | |
| Are there any buildings now that we've approved signs where? | 00:27:19 | |
| It's a small building where their sign was within our limits but would be too big for the 10%. Now is there anything that's? | 00:27:24 | |
| Trying to think maybe? | 00:27:34 | |
| Oh yeah. | 00:27:38 | |
| The amount of control we have on fences and retaining walls is even less. | 00:27:44 | |
| Yeah, we saw it and they will continue to just do whatever you view properties essentially. | 00:27:50 | |
| They basically told us that there's not, there's not a whole lot city. | 00:27:57 | |
| No. Well, all public schools, and that includes universities have. They have to, it's weird. They're supposed to abide by | 00:28:02 | |
| dimensional standards like height setbacks and stuff like that, but they don't have to go through any review process. And what we | 00:28:09 | |
| basically told is to not touch them, you know, stay away from that, so. | 00:28:16 | |
| Yeah, there you go. | 00:28:26 | |
| See. See, I'm just wondering. I'm just wondering if there's like a small building that now. | 00:28:29 | |
| With the 10% or the 5%, their signs would be even smaller. Now I'm just wondering if that I don't know, I'm thinking of the the | 00:28:33 | |
| ice cream shop. Yeah, brokers, but that's a project projecting sign and I can't remember how that I think they got a science | 00:28:40 | |
| standard waiver, but I don't know if they're projecting sign, which is classified differently than a wall sign. I I can look into | 00:28:46 | |
| that. I'm happy to. | 00:28:52 | |
| Research that and see. | 00:28:59 | |
| Yeah, it's just. | 00:29:03 | |
| Just curious if we're limiting the smaller places now, but like if it drops it, yeah, if it's so if we need to do like a 60 square | 00:29:04 | |
| feet or 15%, yeah, given maybe you can't, you can't go less than 6060 square feet or something like that. | 00:29:11 | |
| Yeah, you know what I mean, Because you could you could write like a bottom caps Yeah, like if the the percent kicks in it like. | 00:29:20 | |
| I I don't know. | 00:29:28 | |
| I'm trying to think of some way we could just easily, like, combine the two. Well, yeah, I mean, you could have this language and | 00:29:32 | |
| at the end just do another sentence that says in no case shall a business be required to have less than 60 square feet. And then | 00:29:39 | |
| you provide a bottom cap form. You want to do that? Yeah, let's do that. That work for you, Brian? Cool. | 00:29:46 | |
| And can you recap the other, what was the other amendment that we had chatted about? | 00:29:55 | |
| Or was it the only one the additional? | 00:30:01 | |
| To secondary is implying that it's just one. | 00:30:08 | |
| Because then you go thirdly and fourthly. | 00:30:12 | |
| OK, cool. | 00:30:17 | |
| Were there any other changes on the sign? No, I was there. Yeah, those two. So 60 square feet, is that we're going with Shanabi | 00:30:19 | |
| required to be less than 60 square feet something. Yeah, Yeah, in no case. | 00:30:26 | |
| Wall sign be allowed. | 00:30:34 | |
| Be required to be less than. | 00:30:36 | |
| Yeah, so. | 00:30:45 | |
| And then what was the other? | 00:30:47 | |
| Provision it was changing the text language for secondary facade to additional facade. | 00:30:49 | |
| Or additional facades make it plural. | 00:31:03 | |
| Cool. Do I have a motion on that? | 00:31:09 | |
| Well, first, any comments from the public, public hearing on this, on the signs. We'll, we'll get to the other too, yeah. | 00:31:14 | |
| Yeah, this is just the signs right now. | 00:31:22 | |
| Take care about these things you're passionate about. Square footage of science. | 00:31:25 | |
| Yeah. So do I have a motion to close the public hearing for item 4.1? | 00:31:40 | |
| I moved to close public hearing. Oh, you have a second, second all in favor, Aye, All right. Do I have a motion then? And then | 00:31:46 | |
| this needs to be roll call since it's an ordinance and it's a recommendation, I move to recommend approval of these changes | 00:31:54 | |
| including the verbiage change that. | 00:32:01 | |
| Staff has taken note of. | 00:32:09 | |
| I second that for ordinance 20/21/06. | 00:32:15 | |
| All right, So this will be a roll call, Tay. | 00:32:21 | |
| Anthony and me. | 00:32:25 | |
| Right, OK, I'm moving into item 4.2 just to clarify that that was just a recommending of an approval to the City Council. So just | 00:32:28 | |
| again, to show how the Planning Commission works, we're just saying we think this is a good idea. They can still do whatever they | 00:32:34 | |
| want with it. They can not approve it. Okay, so item 4.2, this is the zoning text amendment for setbacks and location requirements | 00:32:40 | |
| for swimming pools. | 00:32:47 | |
| Do I have a motion to open a public hearing for item 4.2 I? | 00:32:54 | |
| So move. All right. Do I have a second, second all in favor, Aye. And we do have an applicant. So I'd recommend allowing the | 00:32:59 | |
| applicant to get up first and present and then Brian will have some, you know, he can provide some comments afterwards. | 00:33:05 | |
| All right, just state your name. Wait. | 00:33:13 | |
| I'm Johnny Christensen, 323 N there in James Bay, the white brick house. Yeah, I don't have a lot to say, but just my contract or | 00:33:17 | |
| landscaper and pool guy. We are wanting to put our hot tub kind of adjacent to our foundation. They didn't really see anything | 00:33:23 | |
| wrong with it, but just, yeah, open to what your guys feedback is and trying to get that amendment so we can get that hot tub in. | 00:33:29 | |
| So cool, cool, cool. All right. | 00:33:34 | |
| Is this Brian? Yeah. OK. Brian, do you have to? Did we open a public hearing already? OK, sorry. | 00:33:43 | |
| OK, so here's the site plan for the. | 00:33:55 | |
| For Mr. Christensen's home, this portion here is where the where the pool would be. | 00:33:59 | |
| So right now the the the code treats pools as accessory buildings or structures and so it kind of governs them by the existing set | 00:34:05 | |
| back requirements from the primary structure which is 6 feet. So accessory buildings have to be at a minimum 6 feet away from from | 00:34:13 | |
| the primary structure and then from the rear and side property lines they have to be. | 00:34:21 | |
| A minimum of three feet away, and that distance increases based on the height of the accessory building and such. | 00:34:30 | |
| But so the applicant in order to have full enjoyment of this property and to they also discussed about this being able to improve | 00:34:36 | |
| their overall health and happiness and things like that. This is something that they're proposing to the city. So what what the | 00:34:43 | |
| text amendment is, is that swimming pools and spas would be considered part of the primary building if they are within 6 feet of | 00:34:51 | |
| the primary building and as such they must. | 00:34:58 | |
| Here to the building, to the building setbacks of the primary building. So it's treating them as though they were physical part of | 00:35:06 | |
| the primary building itself. So you would still have to be within the building envelope and those setbacks. So they wouldn't be | 00:35:13 | |
| allowed to encourage you into that area. But then the other set back requirements like the minimum 3 feet distance from the rear | 00:35:20 | |
| and side would no longer apply. So this, this, this is one one way that they're proposing that would allow them to have a pool. | 00:35:27 | |
| Closer to the house, you know that convenience of access. | 00:35:35 | |
| OK. Is there a reason why it would have to have the same setbacks as the house? | 00:35:38 | |
| I'm just wondering if there's a way, because I mean, it makes sense to be able to have it right next to your house. I'm just | 00:35:43 | |
| wondering because some neighborhood setbacks are 15 feet or more than that. | 00:35:50 | |
| I'm just wondering if there's a reason why they wouldn't be able to still be able to go up to three feet with the swimming pool. | 00:35:58 | |
| Well, part of it is easements, but I think like we wouldn't allow them to build an an easement anyway. This is kind of a. | 00:36:07 | |
| I categorically it's it's one of those things where it's definitely accessory to the primary use of the residents, but it didn't | 00:36:17 | |
| necessarily fall under, you know, like a true accessory structure as it's, you know, most of them are sub training unless you have | 00:36:23 | |
| like elements that are extended verb vertically and some people do or you have a pool house, obviously that would be a structure. | 00:36:30 | |
| So, you know, as long as they're outside of the the easements. | 00:36:36 | |
| We we kind of felt that that what's that the fire clearance, which is a minimum 5 feet right down the sides. | 00:36:43 | |
| Yeah, sorry, Morgan. Yeah, I know. I don't know. Yeah. So if you if you've checked on that and that's that's great. So, so I mean, | 00:36:52 | |
| my point is if you wanted to reduce like the side setback, as long as they're not in easements and they meet building and fire | 00:36:58 | |
| code because they'd have to go through a billing permit process anyway. So they, you know, but the zoning I don't think | 00:37:04 | |
| necessarily has to account for for all of those. | 00:37:10 | |
| You know, we we typically check easements when they when they apply for a bill implement. | 00:37:17 | |
| So do you think it would make sense to have pools kind of be their own thing? Because I'm just trying to think setbacks of | 00:37:22 | |
| setbacks in James Bay for the rear of the property, is it 20 feet or 25 feet? I just pulled it up. I think it's 20. | 00:37:31 | |
| In in 20 it's it's 20. | 00:37:43 | |
| And so I'm just wondering, 20 feet is, I mean, you'd want your pool like a lot of people would want their pool kind of back in the | 00:37:47 | |
| corner. Not all people, but some people would want to set it back and that would limit them pretty severely. | 00:37:53 | |
| Correct me if I'm wrong, the same code still stands. This would add a provision for pools that want to be located less than six | 00:38:01 | |
| feet, you know. But I mean, I don't think we necessarily have an issue though if you wanted to reduce the side setbacks. | 00:38:10 | |
| You know, I mean, I, I just felt like, like this seemed to be if you're, if you're gonna be less than the six feet, then it would | 00:38:19 | |
| fall under the, the primary building stepax just 'cause that's what we have. But if you wanted something crafted specifically to | 00:38:25 | |
| allow it to be less than six feet plus have the benefit of a three foot set back, you know, we, we can do that as well. And what's | 00:38:31 | |
| the proposed set back on this one? Is it the five feet? | 00:38:37 | |
| On the side, I think it's 8 feet, Yeah, so. | 00:38:44 | |
| Anytime we make recommendations for changes like for this specific one, like I would have no issue with this right? Like on 1/2 | 00:38:49 | |
| acre property there's it obviously works well. | 00:38:54 | |
| I always think of like what's the implication of what it would do in my neighborhood with 10th acre lots, right? So like would it | 00:38:59 | |
| change anything? So I'm just trying to think through what that would look like and if there would be any negative impact on other | 00:39:05 | |
| things going forward and if there's a better way we could could write it. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm | 00:39:12 | |
| just curious if you see any. | 00:39:18 | |
| Yeah. And I, I think, I think you like Bryce kind of pointed out like like something that that we that we can look at and maybe it | 00:39:24 | |
| was kind of an unintentional, but if there's not an impact. | 00:39:29 | |
| You know, if they're going to be fire and building code from the zoning standpoint, we don't necessarily care it's their backyard | 00:39:34 | |
| or even a side yards with their fence. I mean, that's our main thing is the safety aspect of it. Like I believe there's required | 00:39:40 | |
| to be a fence, a self watching fence. So if you want we, we, I mean, I think the applicant is under the gun to, to get an | 00:39:46 | |
| approval. And so, but we could bring this back as just like a, a text or a work session meeting in the future if you want us to, | 00:39:51 | |
| to dig into it and research it. | 00:39:57 | |
| I can't personally think of any effects from doing something like this and it seems fine. I'm just curious if anyone else is | 00:40:04 | |
| thinking of like I'm smaller. Lots of this could potentially cause an issue but I don't I don't see any. | 00:40:10 | |
| Yeah, I was thinking of. | 00:40:17 | |
| You know, if you had a really small lot, I mean, but but then you're, you're kind of governed by the amount of your backyard that | 00:40:19 | |
| you can use for an accessory use anyway. | 00:40:24 | |
| So it might be self regulating if you cope on one of those backyards where you only have 15 feet or so. | 00:40:31 | |
| You might not be able to, Yeah. There's not a lot of pools in the chamber now. I know, I take it. | 00:40:37 | |
| I guess one if I may make a comment on that, Is there a way to ensure? | 00:40:42 | |
| Safety for maybe someone falling out of a window and landing onto the pool or something like that? That would be pretty. | 00:40:51 | |
| I wouldn't worry too much about that. I think having doors that that lock, I mean, I mean that that's going to fit kind of the | 00:40:59 | |
| definition of the fence. | 00:41:04 | |
| So if it's pressed up right against the point, it's hard to control every aspect. I mean, yeah. | 00:41:10 | |
| If someone leaves a window open, a kid falls in. I mean, that's really unfortunate, but I don't know. Yeah. Like, it's hard to | 00:41:16 | |
| make code that addresses every situation. I mean, about, like I said, we could research it if you want. I mean, there's a million | 00:41:22 | |
| pools, swimming pool codes out there. So I think as it's written, just so we can get his building permit, I think this is just | 00:41:28 | |
| fine. The only thing I would want to do in a work session is expand it so that it would make it easier to build it. | 00:41:35 | |
| Into the into the setbacks in March. So to ease up on it more. | 00:41:42 | |
| Right. | 00:41:48 | |
| Are there any public comments on this? | 00:41:51 | |
| There. Cool, cool. So yeah, I say. | 00:41:54 | |
| Personally, I'd be in favor of doing that to approve this now and then you have a work session later as as written, no, no | 00:42:00 | |
| amendments to it then, OK. | 00:42:04 | |
| There's a motion. | 00:42:10 | |
| Yeah. First, a motion that we close our public hearing. | 00:42:12 | |
| All in favor, aye. And then I will also move to recommend approval of the proposed proposed zoning ordinance text amendment for | 00:42:18 | |
| 20/21/07. | 00:42:23 | |
| Have a second. Another second. All in favor. I forgot the roll call. Oh yeah, Anthony, aye. And me aye. | 00:42:29 | |
| All right, cool. Again, that'll go on to the council. So Yep. So next, next. Not approved yet? The first step is done next week. | 00:42:37 | |
| So yeah, next, next Wednesday at the city personal meeting. | 00:42:53 | |
| Cool. All right, moving on to item 4.3, this is. | 00:42:59 | |
| For wall and fence heights. | 00:43:06 | |
| Do I have a motion to open a public hearing? I move to open a public hearing second. | 00:43:10 | |
| All in favor, aye? | 00:43:16 | |
| All right. OK, Brent. So this one also treats the. | 00:43:18 | |
| The zoning code 15 dot 38.030 parking requirements, although it was all done in one ordinance. So we'll, we'll, we'll first talk | 00:43:23 | |
| about the retaining walls and fences and then we'll address the, the lights issue. So we, this is a continuation from the last | 00:43:31 | |
| meeting. We had a discussion about this. We did find the need to add a few more items to the ordinance. | 00:43:40 | |
| Um, just because they provide further clarification on things such as like terrorists retaining walls and how we should approach | 00:43:49 | |
| those. | 00:43:53 | |
| So yeah, I'll just I'll I'll dive into and explain so. | 00:43:59 | |
| Just to make sure I'm understanding protocol, I have the you have to be on the record. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry that we | 00:44:05 | |
| didn't give you an opportunity to to talk to you. Have you state your name and then the neighborhood or who you're representing? | 00:44:09 | |
| Sure. | 00:44:13 | |
| Hello, everyone. My name is Richie Stapler. Yeah, so neighborhood is James Bay. And sorry, I was just waiting for the opportunity, | 00:44:19 | |
| but. | 00:44:23 | |
| Yeah. So more specifically in James Bay, talking about wall height, looking to do an amendment there. And so as much as we love | 00:44:28 | |
| our 6 foot wall height, there are situations where we actually need a wall higher than that, right. And so on that West side of | 00:44:35 | |
| James Bay continuing actually along the fence line that these two gentlemen have. | 00:44:41 | |
| For each, if you're to do at the continuation of the six foot wall height, that would be required to have a third tier, which is | 00:44:50 | |
| more expensive and also cuts into your yard an additional 4 feet for every tier you add. And so the Long story short is we're | 00:44:57 | |
| trying to opt for like an 8 foot wall instead of the six foot because that will allow us to do 2 tiers rather than three. So as a | 00:45:04 | |
| homeowner to save money and also gives us more yard. | 00:45:11 | |
| Yeah, Anything else? | 00:45:21 | |
| No, that's it. Thank you. All right, awesome. Thank you so much. | 00:45:22 | |
| Yeah. So this this ordinance does reflect that desire for an 8 foot fence. And and what we thought about with that is that areas | 00:45:26 | |
| along the lakefront, not just James Bay, some of some of them have very substantial, you know slope increases or decreases, | 00:45:33 | |
| however you look at it that might require for a higher wall. I don't know that many other places in the city would require a neat | 00:45:41 | |
| foot wall. So we still anticipate that most retaining walls are going to. | 00:45:48 | |
| Are just gonna need that 6 foot threshold, but this does provide for greater convenience for for the property owners to not have | 00:45:55 | |
| to build up more tiers and obviously the burden of of of an increased price. So we took all that into consideration. | 00:46:04 | |
| But I wanted to speak a little more to what the specifics of this ordinance are. So this ordinance provides a definition for what | 00:46:14 | |
| a retaining wall is. | 00:46:20 | |
| It outlines when a building permit would be triggered for a retaining wall, and that's at 4 feet in height, measured from the | 00:46:26 | |
| bottom of the footing to the top of the wall. | 00:46:32 | |
| It also outlines that retaining walls over 4 feet need to be designed and inspected by a certified engineer. Quick question, yeah, | 00:46:39 | |
| with an 8 foot wall, is that from the bottom of the footing that that's going to be from? | 00:46:47 | |
| From the finished grade to the to the highest point of the wall. | 00:46:55 | |
| Yeah. The to clarify to, so there's kind of two measurements for the whether or not you need a building permit. That measurement | 00:47:01 | |
| is taken from the bottom of the footing to the top of the retainer. | 00:47:07 | |
| Thanks, Morgan. | 00:47:16 | |
| So yeah, that 8 foot to the this code establishes that 8 foot maximum for any single retaining wall. It establishes that fences | 00:47:19 | |
| and walls can be located on top of retaining walls. So you can have a fence, and I'll speak a little bit more to that here in a | 00:47:26 | |
| second, establishes that the maximum combined exposed face of the wall. So of the entire thing, the routine wall and the fence | 00:47:34 | |
| portion shall not exceed. | 00:47:41 | |
| Feet in total and. | 00:47:48 | |
| So it's 14 instead of 16. | 00:47:54 | |
| So 8 and six yeah, insects, because our code states that any fence over six feet would require building permit. | 00:48:00 | |
| But. | 00:48:10 | |
| Yeah. | 00:48:16 | |
| But when we wrote this code, we forgot to insert a caveat with this 14 foot. | 00:48:18 | |
| Part of this so we wanted to add. | 00:48:26 | |
| So we can actually write this several ways, but one way that we could write this is under no circumstances shall the fence portion | 00:48:30 | |
| of the combined exposed face of the retaining wall exceed 6 feet in height measured from the top of the retaining wall to the top | 00:48:35 | |
| of the fence. | 00:48:40 | |
| So we just the reason why we're doing that is because if someone has like a four foot retaining wall that isn't going to give | 00:48:46 | |
| them, we don't want to, we don't want them to allow to build a 10 foot fence over the routine wall, if that makes sense. Yeah, we | 00:48:52 | |
| don't want to create a loophole for people to get instead of a six foot fetch. | 00:48:58 | |
| You know, they have some slope to the yard, so they go, well, let's put in a retaining wall and then they end up with a, you know, | 00:49:05 | |
| a 10 foot 10%, you know, so that's the. So yeah, we're trying to make sure there's not like a loophole like that people can | 00:49:09 | |
| exploit. | 00:49:13 | |
| The way that we could, well that's essentially what we want to do is make sure that that is inserted there in some some form of | 00:49:24 | |
| way. | 00:49:27 | |
| And then? | 00:49:32 | |
| The highest .0. Sorry, I'm reading things that I already read. | 00:49:36 | |
| Oh, OK, um. | 00:49:44 | |
| So if a wall needs to be designed, a routine wall needs to be designed higher than 8 feet, then that's going to trigger a terrace | 00:49:48 | |
| needing to be built. So you can't go over 8 feet retaining the wall. And so this code also establishes design standards for the | 00:49:54 | |
| for the terraces, how they need to be built and what kind of materials, colors, they basically need to be consistent with the | 00:50:00 | |
| underlying retaining wall so that that first wall that was built. | 00:50:06 | |
| The second one needs to look and match either an existing retaining wall. They just wanted to be consistent. Essentially you don't | 00:50:13 | |
| want mismatched looking walls in terms of materiality and things like that. And then we also outlined a distance requirement | 00:50:20 | |
| between 1 terrace to another. And that distance requirement is half of the height of the previous wall. So if you have a retaining | 00:50:28 | |
| wall that's 8 feet, then that that distance needs to be needs to be 4 feet. | 00:50:35 | |
| OK, Yeah, that would all be engineered as well. Both the terraces and that retaining wall. Exactly, exactly. And all the wall, the | 00:50:44 | |
| retaining wall, the landscaping that goes to the retaining wall, the drainage, all that stuff used to be maintained by the | 00:50:50 | |
| property owner. So it's it wouldn't fall upon the city to to maintain anyone's wall and then. | 00:50:57 | |
| What's that last? There's one more portion I haven't covered, sorry, and I just wanted to just to clarify my own question earlier. | 00:51:05 | |
| It's been answered for me now, but a wall could if it has a bunch of tears. It could essentially be as high as a person wanted it | 00:51:10 | |
| to be if it is tiered back. | 00:51:15 | |
| The 14 feet was just the wall plus the fence. Yeah, I guess we don't outline a number of tiers on this. Yeah. So if it's a second | 00:51:21 | |
| here and I don't, I don't think we we we need to. No, we don't need to. I was just before when I was thinking 14 feet. I was | 00:51:26 | |
| thinking the like with tears. It could only be 14. | 00:51:32 | |
| Yeah. So I mean how we would measure it is we would measure. So if there's two tiers, then we would measure the fence with the | 00:51:39 | |
| second tier. OK. That's what the that was. Got it. | 00:51:45 | |
| Yeah, yeah. | 00:51:52 | |
| OK, was there one other thing you said? Oh, yeah, there is one thing and I was hoping Morgan could provide some clarification on | 00:51:54 | |
| this. So we're retaining walls were wrecked. It's a This is what it says. We're retaining walls were erected as part of a | 00:52:00 | |
| subdivision approval. The design and construction of any additional retaining walls shall first be submitted for review and | 00:52:06 | |
| approval by the City based on plans and specifications certified by a certified structural engineer and erected using the colors | 00:52:12 | |
| and materials as. | 00:52:17 | |
| Prove for the subdivision. | 00:52:24 | |
| Yeah. So that's, that's going to require overall pin consistency. And I don't think we're going to have many issues with that. But | 00:52:27 | |
| it it first of all, it's going to, it's going to require basically you say for your subdivision, you do the entitlement work, you | 00:52:32 | |
| do the master planning, you get the logs established, you build a retaining wall. | 00:52:37 | |
| Adding more retaining walls triggers a new permit, but that retaining wall needs to be consistent with the retaining wall sort of | 00:52:45 | |
| in place. So you know, you're not having every property with a completely different retaining wall, one that's maybe a straight | 00:52:51 | |
| cement face next to something that's more block of rock. You do get a lot of like rockery retaining walls. | 00:52:57 | |
| So we want to make sure there's some consistency there. | 00:53:04 | |
| OK, thanks. | 00:53:08 | |
| That's that's everything. | 00:53:10 | |
| Cool. Did you guys have any other questions? | 00:53:14 | |
| Just out of curiosity, like I know we talked about sign standard waivers. Is it there precedence for having like wall waivers too, | 00:53:17 | |
| you know, like if you know 6 feet is the standard, but if you want to exceed that, yeah. I mean what we did prior I think, yeah, I | 00:53:24 | |
| think Clay went through a bare variance. So we do have a variant. Variances are very difficult to get and with his, his case was | 00:53:31 | |
| was unique. I don't believe the rest of his of the lots in James Bay would qualify for that. | 00:53:38 | |
| Set up to be administrative. So they, they would go through a staff process, submit a billing permit with the engineering and then | 00:54:16 | |
| we would do our analysis on a staff level and then they would be approved through the billing permit process. And we did, we did | 00:54:22 | |
| put that caveat for the, their engineer would have to go back and provide us a report. So, so and, and we actually saw that in a | 00:54:27 | |
| few different communities. | 00:54:33 | |
| That did did that as well. So it's all right. Well, it sounds like we have provisions in place. So you he's got something stamped | 00:54:41 | |
| from from their engineers. So they're taking liability there. There is an issue, OK. | 00:54:45 | |
| Cool. Did you guys have any anything you guys wanted to add? Let's get to you guys. | 00:54:51 | |
| Yeah, sorry. | 00:54:57 | |
| Trying to keep it the same too, because ideally we kind of keep that just a really cool trail way for us to use. Yeah, no, it | 00:55:31 | |
| looks gorgeous. Wow, it's awesome. | 00:55:36 | |
| Cool. Thank you. All right. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I move to close public hearing. All in favor, Aye. All | 00:55:41 | |
| right. Do I have a motion for this? | 00:55:47 | |
| Sure. Just just to clarify, no one had any. | 00:55:54 | |
| Tweaks your changes to this one. Brian, your language. | 00:55:58 | |
| Your language wasn't in the public hearing notice they would have if they recommend approval with the amendment. So do you want to | 00:56:02 | |
| pop your language out today? They could even just read it into the record. | 00:56:07 | |
| Here and I'll just put it on the OR you can even state it in the record if you're OK with that Chair. | 00:56:14 | |
| So here's the language that says under no circumstances shall the fence portion of the combined exposed face of the retaining wall | 00:56:20 | |
| exceeds 6 feet in height, measured from the top of the retaining wall. | 00:56:27 | |
| To the top of the fence. | 00:56:34 | |
| All right. Well, based on that, I move to recommend approval of the proposed zoning ordinance text amendment ordinance 20/21/08 | 00:56:38 | |
| with the additional stipulations that Brian just read in that's 20210606. | 00:56:45 | |
| All right, this will be a roll call. Take Anthony. Aye, me aye. All right. Cool. | 00:56:55 | |
| So again, that'll go to the City Council for approval. | 00:57:04 | |
| But next week. Yep. Correct. Cool. All right, So moving into 5.1 Planning Commission training opportunities. I did see your | 00:57:08 | |
| e-mail. Yeah. I guess you want to start off and then I'll just jump in. Yeah, sure. Let me pull up this document real quick. We | 00:57:15 | |
| were kind of hoping we'd have more people in attendance for for the Planning Commission so we could kind of gauge people's | 00:57:23 | |
| interests. But we, we've identified a few training opportunities for the. | 00:57:30 | |
| Commission that that we can find out if you guys are interested in in we can go on from there. So the first one would be the Utah | 00:57:38 | |
| League of Cities and towns that have an annual conference and I believe that they have a specific day of planning day on September | 00:57:44 | |
| 30th. It's an all day event where they're going to have like walking tours and workshops and stuff like that. So if that's | 00:57:51 | |
| something you guys are interested in. | 00:57:57 | |
| We can work on, on getting the the costs approved and all that and just add to that. That's a really fun one. I've been to it | 00:58:04 | |
| probably five times and it's they usually bring in some pretty killer projects and. | 00:58:10 | |
| Their, their launch is great. And what we do is one of us from the city will go and snag a table and then everyone from the city | 00:58:16 | |
| that's there. And there's usually a couple council members and, you know, probably seven or eight of us, but we'll also the same | 00:58:23 | |
| table and it's just kind of a fun time to get together. But, and they always have a really good keynote speaker or, or even just | 00:58:29 | |
| like a launch time speaker. I think we had Chuck Marrone was there two years ago. | 00:58:35 | |
| And he talked about the like the fiscal sustainability of a city. | 00:58:42 | |
| Based off of land use and that was really cool. So he was like comparing downtown's to do like a suburban shopping mall, the same | 00:58:47 | |
| acreage. And then he he ran all the the numbers in a in the in the same city, so the same market. And anyway, it was really a kind | 00:58:54 | |
| of a fascinating lunch. And so they're they usually bring in some like a heavy hitter. Like the keynote this year is I don't know | 00:59:01 | |
| his name, but he's a cave rescuer, so I don't know. | 00:59:08 | |
| Well, rescuer Cave. | 00:59:16 | |
| Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So it should be interesting. If you guys are interested, you can feel free to I guess e-mail me or contact | 00:59:18 | |
| my schedule. I wanna go to that. OK, great. I will be out of town, so. | 00:59:23 | |
| OK. | 00:59:31 | |
| Yeah, a reminder e-mail with all those things. Yeah, Yeah, I can. I'll, I'll work on the drafting up an e-mail that lists all of | 00:59:35 | |
| these trainings, give you a little bit more information on them. So the next one would be the training with the ombudsman, with | 00:59:41 | |
| the state. This is one that we request and they'll actually come to Vineyard City. | 00:59:47 | |
| This one's a lot more legal in depth, talking about land use and stuff like that. I haven't had this training. I don't know if | 00:59:53 | |
| Morgan has any more details on it, but yeah, I, I did a while back. I think Bryce, you may have gone with his. Liz and I went and | 00:59:59 | |
| then we had one or two commissioners that went and there were a few locations around, around like Utah where you could, you could | 01:00:04 | |
| plug in. I think they, they may have this, this one is, is the one we request where they actually come physically here and they'll | 01:00:10 | |
| talk about topics and. | 01:00:15 | |
| Nassim just brought up a page that talked about boundary line disputes. | 01:00:22 | |
| Today. So that actually kind of a cool one. Yeah, it would be a public meeting, so it would be open to whoever wanted to come. So | 01:00:26 | |
| if you guys are interested in that, we can we can try to get something scheduled, but that one will just be here. And then what | 01:00:32 | |
| was the 3rd? The third one is the APA Utah Annual Conference, and that is September 9th and the 10th. Where's that one located? | 01:00:38 | |
| Did you get that? I don't know if they had a well, we can send an e-mail. Those are always fun. I don't know if you guys have gone | 01:00:44 | |
| to the Utah EPA. | 01:00:50 | |
| Try our goal is to have all planning commissioners go to at least one training something beyond the the attorney like open | 01:00:56 | |
| meetings, the law training something is more like planning so you can develop some skill sets but. | 01:01:03 | |
| To what you're interested in, that APA meeting is in Taylorsville, it looks like. | 01:01:42 | |
| So, so yeah, if you do find anything you're interested in, you can e-mail me and I can get more details on it. | 01:01:48 | |
| I just remember that we. | 01:01:55 | |
| Didn't cover the light standards. Yeah, you're right. The light standards ordinance. | 01:01:57 | |
| I think we have to, I think we have to open up another public meeting, I think public hearing, right. So if we skipped it on the | 01:02:05 | |
| agenda, we can just go was that part of one of the other? It was part of one of the other ordinances, part of the last one there | 01:02:10 | |
| were honestly. | 01:02:15 | |
| Then I would just want to be if it's been recommended for approval. So. Yeah, but just to clarify then, So what we recommended for | 01:02:22 | |
| approval was what was what was written here. And it it provided provisions for the city lights to fall into compliance, the | 01:02:29 | |
| existing city lights to fall under compliance. Yeah, exactly. And they did fall into compliance with the based on the revisions to | 01:02:35 | |
| this. Yeah. When we discussed it last night, we were all. | 01:02:41 | |
| So, so this ordinance is going to govern only private lights on commercial lights on private property. So it really doesn't really | 01:02:49 | |
| govern city lights at all, but perhaps has their own set of standards so that that they they manage. And So what we do here would | 01:02:57 | |
| just be like parking lot private property pole lights. And so this this wouldn't affect anything that. | 01:03:05 | |
| Yeah, I believe that in there. | 01:03:17 | |
| And recommended that yeah. So the the height is 20 feet on, on private property, right. And and anything in the zoning code if you | 01:03:20 | |
| have something in your street standards, the zoning code doesn't override St. standards. | 01:03:26 | |
| Well, it would be a little different because in this case where you have you have a parking lot, a budding a, you know, house or | 01:03:35 | |
| townhomes or streets. Yeah, if you, I mean those are close to, but you have a little bit more buffer. | 01:03:43 | |
| Like, I don't know, I don't think it matters, honestly. Yeah. | 01:03:52 | |
| Yeah, yeah. But so I think we're at 20 feet. | 01:03:56 | |
| Just ensuring that we're following our own rules and we've clarified that it's not going to affect what public works are doing. | 01:04:01 | |
| Yeah, OK. | 01:04:09 | |
| That was that, yeah. So I mean, this is one of those things. Honestly, if someone complaints, then we would, we'd probably bring | 01:04:11 | |
| it back for an official public hearing and cover it. But I think legally we're covered because it was noticed. It was in the staff | 01:04:17 | |
| report. We did have a public hearing, but that wasn't a controversial part of the ordinance, so we didn't dive into it. | 01:04:23 | |
| OK. And it's something we had a public hearing for previously and discussed? | 01:04:31 | |
| OK. Anything else from the staff? | 01:04:38 | |
| And Commission member reports. | 01:04:41 | |
| Nope, none for me. Do we need another alternate commissioner? | 01:04:45 | |
| Are we short one? | 01:04:50 | |
| No, we have 3 alternates. I think we've looked today, we have 3 alternates of five regular. | 01:04:53 | |
| Now we, yeah, I mean, I, I know people that have been busy lives, it just kind of sticks when it all kind of happens at the same | 01:05:02 | |
| time. Luckily we have 3 of you. Yeah, thank you guys. Yeah. So we didn't run any issues because we'd have to renotice everything | 01:05:09 | |
| if not, Yeah. OK, so I have a comment slash question. | 01:05:16 | |
| For Chris about the roads, I talked to the road guy after the meeting from the City Council meeting and we talked about a vineyard | 01:05:24 | |
| being a. | 01:05:30 | |
| An active transportation community and. | 01:05:37 | |
| How we can have asphalt that. | 01:05:42 | |
| Kind of promotes that. And he was, I don't know if he talked to you about this yet, but apparently there's an option in the future | 01:05:47 | |
| to use a smaller aggregate. | 01:05:52 | |
| That, he said, would be less costly. It's more grippy and it's smoother, but it might not last quite as long as the bigger | 01:05:58 | |
| aggregate stuff. | 01:06:03 | |
| I'm just wondering if in the future we can consider that. | 01:06:10 | |
| So I mean, we definitely can can look into that. There is a. | 01:06:17 | |
| We do look at how often we want to treat the roads so that where layer is an important factor of how, what our intervals are. So | 01:06:22 | |
| it's going to rough it, the cost savings won't be big enough. So if I for example, if I have to do this treatment that we did | 01:06:29 | |
| based on how we're doing it right now, I can get maybe I can get eight to 10 years out of it. And if I use a smaller aggregate, I | 01:06:37 | |
| may only get. | 01:06:44 | |
| Years out of it and so with the cost is still going to be, you know for this project it's like a $300,000 project. So that's just | 01:06:52 | |
| something we have to keep in mind is do we want to spend $300,000 every five years or do we want to spend $300,000 every 10 years? | 01:07:01 | |
| So we just have to balance that. Now the other, the other factor in it is determining as we make our active transportation plans. | 01:07:12 | |
| Where are the locations of those different active transportation uses? So you know, if if we're building trails is trails the | 01:07:22 | |
| location for certain active transportation where we allow other active transportation on the streets. And you know, typically when | 01:07:30 | |
| we're looking at a street we're looking at the heavier wear use which is vehicles. | 01:07:39 | |
| And not that lighter weight active transportation. | 01:07:49 | |
| So we just have to look at that as we're going through the our. | 01:07:53 | |
| Our master plan for the active transportation and make those decisions because it comes with the cost with it. My recommendation | 01:07:58 | |
| would be to. | 01:08:03 | |
| Put the other activities, the lighter as you know, the lighter weight activities maybe with the smaller wheels and such that. | 01:08:10 | |
| You know, would prefer a smoother surface on the trails and the sidewalks, concrete stuff where you can have that smoother surface | 01:08:19 | |
| where you're not looking for. | 01:08:24 | |
| The, you know, the wear layer and the traction and such, that would be my first recommendation, but that that's coming from, you | 01:08:29 | |
| know, the engineering side of me and, and not necessarily the the end user. So we mean the actual transportation users. So | 01:08:36 | |
| something to keep in mind as we go through, but it's, it comes down to a cost. | 01:08:43 | |
| A big cost factor. Yeah, OK, cool. Thank you. Just to kind of piggyback off with Chris was talking about. | 01:08:52 | |
| It's my understanding that the type of binder material that especially specifically that this vendor utilizes as. | 01:08:59 | |
| It's got a very prolonged life on there. So I show the top surface of it. Again, like Chris was talking about, the aggregates on | 01:09:08 | |
| itself is very important, especially when you talk about the friction and the structural integrity of the binder itself actually | 01:09:16 | |
| will lead to, you know, that smoother surface type thing since you have less, I guess less gaps in your aggregates. | 01:09:23 | |
| So yeah, we're just when I was talking to the guy, he was just saying that it would be significantly smoother with a smaller | 01:09:31 | |
| aggregate. And I know that the aggregate helps in the where layer, but he was touting a lot about the HA5 being the real and aware | 01:09:39 | |
| layer for them. But it is interesting talking to him but and then going off of that. | 01:09:47 | |
| When we had our active transportation meeting, there was a guy from the state that said that there would be money. | 01:09:56 | |
| Available from the state and I don't know if we've pursued this yet and asked my question is if we pursued this yet to convert the | 01:10:02 | |
| sidewalk to a trail specifically on Center Street, that would be a Morgan question. Yeah, that's a Morgan question. | 01:10:09 | |
| Was this during the? | 01:10:17 | |
| Like our our steering committee meeting that we had. Maybe he was an older guy. How about Jim Price? | 01:10:19 | |
| Yeah, I can ******* follow because I mean, with the new asphalt that's on, she told us that there's opportunities for quite a few | 01:10:27 | |
| things that like upgrades or trail related. When we were talking about removing the sidewalk and putting a trail there, he's like, | 01:10:33 | |
| we have something for that. Like he was specifically like we could do that is what we have this grant for. It's for stuff like | 01:10:38 | |
| that. | 01:10:43 | |
| Send him an e-mail. I'll see if I get some because I just bring that up just with the new asphalt. It's, it sucks to skateboard on | 01:10:49 | |
| the sidewalk and the road. Yeah, so I'm in, I'm in Springville and we have a lot of there's quite a there's a small skate park, | 01:10:55 | |
| but it's pretty active skating community. And a lot of them take 400 E where I live down, down to, to the skate park that's like | 01:11:01 | |
| half a mile away. And they redid the road, but they didn't like it's very choppy and sharp and they didn't put like a smooth | 01:11:07 | |
| surface on it. | 01:11:13 | |
| And it infuriated a lot of people. And they haven't done anything to rectify it. I I don't imagine they will be. Yeah. There's a | 01:11:20 | |
| trail upgrade. Money. I mean, that's, Yeah, a second. Yeah, sure. Also on the railroad track. I know that that was the old | 01:11:27 | |
| Vineyard Rd. That could use some love and attention as well. Yeah. Sounds good. I'll get out if there's money. I'll get with Jim. | 01:11:33 | |
| We have a lot of connections throughout the city. And then that, like Center St. | 01:11:39 | |
| Onto main road just as only sidewalk, no trail. Got something for us. I was just going to say the old Vineyard Rd. The. | 01:11:46 | |
| Struggle we have with. | 01:11:55 | |
| Putting money into that is that we're hoping to see it go. It'll be rebuilt sooner than later. So it's hard to want to go and | 01:11:57 | |
| throw half million dollars or rather than like resurfacing it, it'll actually completely. Yeah, we'll completely rebuild it with | 01:12:04 | |
| the the the town as the Town Center develops, it goes up there. That's part of the plan is to rebuild that road with new cross, a | 01:12:12 | |
| full cross section for the Town Center code and the plan. So that that's where we struggle to put any money into that. I mean. | 01:12:19 | |
| It's a the road. | 01:12:27 | |
| Is still a good Rd. it just has some. | 01:12:29 | |
| Speed bumps. | 01:12:33 | |
| Yeah, I don't really care about the bumps. It's just all the weeds grow up through and you get all like the goat heads and all | 01:12:36 | |
| that. Okay, so you're looking more towards. | 01:12:41 | |
| Landscaping and yeah, but in control of the vegetation, yeah, but like in the actual trail cracks. Yeah. So like I've even | 01:12:48 | |
| wondered like could be locked as long as steel stuff that they do sometimes. Yeah. So that would be so that trail is is maintained | 01:12:55 | |
| by the county. | 01:13:03 | |
| Other one that runs along the railroad track right there. | 01:13:11 | |
| Along the railroad. | 01:13:14 | |
| The old Vineyard Rd. used to be right, so running right along the South of Yeah so. | 01:13:20 | |
| So we were trying to get a, we were trying to get, we want to do a mill an overlay over that old section along Leche, not in | 01:13:33 | |
| Bridgeport. But if there are weed control issues, we definitely want to get out there and spray them like those puncture weeds are | 01:13:41 | |
| just an infestation here in Vineyard. And, and so if you notice areas and such like that, let us know and, and we'll get out there | 01:13:48 | |
| and spray them. And I know especially like a school starting. | 01:13:56 | |
| The new Trailside Elementary, like my kids have told me, I don't want to ride on it because I get a flat tire, but I'll | 01:14:03 | |
| rollerblade or skateboard where I can get a flat tire. But that's kind of a shared sentiment, no? That's a great input. So I'll | 01:14:09 | |
| let our parks guy know to get out there maybe. | 01:14:15 | |
| I don't know if you can get out there this week, but maybe next week. Yeah, that'd be perfect. If you get somebody out there to | 01:14:22 | |
| try and take care of some of that stuff before school starts. I think that's going to be like the main route that most kids take | 01:14:28 | |
| to school. And then maybe the other thing I can do is I can have our sweeper run down that trail corridor as well and try and get | 01:14:34 | |
| it cleaned up a little bit. And the construction they've done OK about like cleaning up as it's gone further north. | 01:14:40 | |
| But now that the construction is essentially done all the way up to the school and even beyond, like, yeah, running, running this | 01:14:47 | |
| week for up, I think it just, yeah, clean it all up and be ready to go. Yeah. And the other thing that I know, there's a small | 01:14:52 | |
| section that still will probably get out there and just put a cold, do some kind of a cold patch or something. And there's a | 01:14:57 | |
| little trench section that was cut across. | 01:15:02 | |
| And then just as another note, because I know you, you live there and we'll show it on, but we're, we're looking at removing all | 01:15:08 | |
| of the vegetation on that trail corridor and just having a drive. | 01:15:15 | |
| Because it's just too hard to maintain. It's kind of out of sight, out of mind and it just it's. And then just to be more water | 01:15:24 | |
| wise, it's another option. | 01:15:29 | |
| Yeah. I mean, we can. We can put the water into the areas that are more. | 01:15:36 | |
| Of a, you know, into our parks, that usable leave space, it's more used. Enjoy where you, you know, you're not just walking past | 01:15:40 | |
| it, but you're hanging out in it and such. So we'll keep those areas green and then we'll, we're going to try and be more water | 01:15:47 | |
| wise on these trails. Yeah, long term maintenance will be way lower on that too. Yeah, I know that my husband also likes to write | 01:15:54 | |
| his bank and my kids and they just never take that drill because they come home with like every tire flat. | 01:16:00 | |
| So that would be really nice. | 01:16:08 | |
| Like that area? Yeah, I'll skateboard on it. Cool. All right. Thank you, guys. Do I have in motion to adjourn the meeting? Motion | 01:16:11 | |
| to adjourn. I'll second that. All in favor, aye. | 01:16:17 | |
| Thanks everybody. | 01:16:27 | |
| Sorry about the beginning, United. | 01:16:28 |