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INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE – Commissioner Jenkins gave an invocation.
OPEN SESSION – Resident Sherry Teschner addressed the Planning Commission about a property dispute and fencing issue with her neighbor.
MINUTES REVIEW AND APPROVAL –1    July,21 MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS RECORDED. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.      BUSINESS ITEMS1    Public Hearing – Zoning Text Amendment (ZTA) for VZC.48.070 and VZC.48.040 modifying the language regarding monument and wall signs. Ordinance Number21-08.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO OPEN THE MEETING FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE21-08 TO THE CITY COUNCIL. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 2    Public Hearing – Zoning Text Amendment (ZTA) for VZC.34.160 & VZC.12.060 modifying setbacks and location requirements for swimming pools. Ordinance Number21-07.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO OPEN THE MEETING FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Resident Johnny Christensen spoke in favor of Ordinance21-07. Planner II Briam Amaya Perez introduced the zoning text amendment and displayed a site plan that would be affected by the text amendment. The Planning Commission discussed safety concerns regarding pools being located close to primary structures.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE21-07 TO THE CITY COUNCIL. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   3    Public Hearing – Zoning Text Amendment (ZTA) for VZC.32.230 and VZC.38.030. Ordinance Number21-06.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO OPEN THE MEETING FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Resident Richie Stapler spoke in favor of ordinance21-06. As a resident of the James Bay subdivision, he stated that he hopes that the other residents on the west side of the neighborhood continue a similar design and size of retaining wall as the current walls. Mr. Perez described the language of the ordinance and clarified some concerns from the Planning Commission.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE21-06 TO THE CITY COUNCIL. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.      WORKSESSION1    Planning Commission Training Opportunities Planning Technician Cache Hancey described three different training opportunities for the Planning Commissioners to consider. Community Development Director Morgan Brim encouraged the Planning Commissioners to continue their education and look for other training opportunities.     COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSION DISCLOSURE
Chair Brady asked Assistant Public Works Director Chris Wilson questions about future road designs to accommodate other modes of transportation. Mr. Wilson was also asked about the pedestrian trail on the east side of LeCheminant and Bridgeport Neighborhoods. He stated that city staff would take a look at removing the weeds and goat heads before the school year starts.   ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO ADJOURN. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.      CERTIFIED CORRECT ON:August,21   NOTICED BY:   /s/ Cache Hancey                          Cache Hancey, Planning Technician
This is the Vineyard Planning Commission. We'll get right into it. We'll have an opening. 00:00:02
By Anthony. I don't know what you want to do. OK, An opening prayer by Anthony. 00:00:09
Father in Heaven, we're grateful to be gathered here together and to discuss Vineyard City. 00:00:15
Please help us to. 00:00:22
Know what's best for the residents and for the city long term and that we can make wise decisions that are based on feedback from 00:00:25
the community and also from the competent staff that we have here. I say this name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. Thank you, 00:00:31
Anthony. All right. Moving to minutes of for review and approval. Cool thing about the minutes now is it's just recorded basically 00:00:38
so everything's in there so do I have. 00:00:44
Open session. 00:00:52
I think there's no concession. 00:00:54
Yes, sorry. So yeah, yeah, I guess we'll move into the open session. So for the open session, we have a couple of things on the 00:00:55
agenda today. If one of the things that you were wanting to make a comment about is in the agenda, we have a public hearing and 00:01:01
you'll have an opportunity to make a comment then I assume you guys are here for potentially the wall ordinance that's passing am 00:01:07
I are? 00:01:12
Well, OK, Whirlpool and moral support. So if you guys have other comments not retaining to the wall or the pool, you can make them 00:01:19
right now. If not, we're going to have a chance for you guys to make public comments when we move into that. 00:01:27
Cool. Did you have any public comments that you wanted? OK, just come up here to the podium. State your name and yeah, and your 00:01:35
neighborhood. 00:01:41
My name is Sherry Teschner. Is there something? Yeah, just make sure the lights on. 00:01:51
Can you hear me now? 00:01:56
Feel like a Verizon? Can you hear me now? 00:01:58
Anyway, my name is Sherry Tester, I live at 188 S Holdaway Rd. and I am one of the original people that lived here. 00:02:03
So I was on the Planning Commission myself, one of the original few from about. 00:02:14
Somewhere around 1995 to 2006. We have lived here 28 years. 00:02:23
We've lived very peaceably. 00:02:29
And enjoyed that piece on Holloway Rd. until Glade Holdaway. 00:02:33
Sold and subdivided his property. 00:02:39
And. 00:02:43
While we were gone on vacation. 00:02:49
Which we have rarely done. 00:02:52
One of our neighbors, the tomato, bows. 00:02:56
Have dug onto our property, dug up our fence line. 00:03:00
Offense broke the fence, broke the post. 00:03:06
And build. It proceeded to build. 00:03:11
Their retaining law. 00:03:15
And he said he wanted to put it there and he wanted to put it on the outside of the property line. It has been surveyed and 00:03:18
according to the law, which I don't know if you are aware of or no, I don't know if. 00:03:25
Professional planners or not, or if they have that these days. 00:03:34
It is against the law to do that. 00:03:42
To it was destruction of property. 00:03:46
And then he is encroaching. 00:03:50
On our property. 00:03:52
And it was. 00:03:55
By it is called boundary by acquiescence. 00:03:58
And that means our fence line was the property line and he has destroyed it. I do have pictures of it before and after. 00:04:03
He has seen it and he has seen it. 00:04:15
Morgan was out there when the very first. 00:04:19
Began And I guess that's the end of us taking vacations. I can't go anywhere because somebody is going to do something to our 00:04:22
property is not fair and it is not right. 00:04:28
And there's nothing, no satisfaction that I've been able to get out of this city or town. I'm not even sure what we are anymore. 00:04:36
We're a city now. 00:04:45
We used to be a town. 00:04:47
And because there aren't any ordinances. 00:04:50
That stop these people from doing this, destroying a fence line. 00:04:56
And he and. 00:05:02
His arrogance. 00:05:06
His piety. 00:05:07
And his bullying I don't appreciate. 00:05:09
And I don't think it's right that he gets away with it. 00:05:13
And the city continues to tell me there's nothing that they can do about it because there are no ordinances about fence lines. So 00:05:18
he put up. 00:05:23
Retaining wall which is made of. 00:05:28
Ray, what ties? Is that what they're called Timbers? 00:05:32
And those railroad ties have chunks missing out of them. 00:05:36
They are not level, they are not straight. 00:05:40
They when it rained the last few days, the water and the mud has gone down to the bottom and sometimes through the Timbers. 00:05:44
And going through. 00:05:55
And so it could make a river. Not only that, it could make that wall weak. 00:05:57
And it could make it very dangerous. 00:06:05
We talked to him and asked him to put. 00:06:08
And shove his because he is over a construction company. 00:06:11
Asked him if he could take his heavy equipment and push the wall back and push it back over a few inches. 00:06:18
So that he is not on top of our. 00:06:28
Our fence line anymore. 00:06:32
And. 00:06:35
He said yes, I can do that and he didn't. He made it look like he was doing that, but he didn't do it. And then he put in a metal 00:06:37
post to replace our wooden post. 00:06:43
That had barbed wire on him. 00:06:51
And. 00:06:53
He not only didn't put him back where they were or on where our wooden fence was, he put them several inches on our side of the 00:06:55
property line, thus destroying again the property line. 00:07:04
It is by and there are laws about this. 00:07:13
I. 00:07:19
Really do appreciate the comment with the meeting. 00:07:23
You're pushing it. 00:07:35
Yeah, and I'm telling you kindly, I'm about finished, but I think it's unfair what this city has done to me. 00:07:38
And we have been here. We've been good taxpayers for over 28 years. 00:07:48
Right. We're not putting your question that you've heard this several times. You guys have it. Yeah. So as far as the Planning 00:07:54
Commission goes, if there are ordinances, those are things that we can do as far as I. 00:08:01
Making a new ordinance. 00:08:10
As with a situation like this, the only thing we could be able to do, I guess would be to have different wall requirements as far 00:08:13
as materials and stuff like that. But encroaching on somebody'd property or even not holding the water on on their own property. 00:08:20
Those are there are legal things you can take as a Planning Commission. We don't have power to go out and and I'm sorry, I don't 00:08:28
I'm not aware of who you people are and I'm sorry. So can you tell me who you are where the Planning Commission we help. 00:08:35
Are you brought in from the community? Are you hired by? 00:08:44
The town, are you getting paid by the town? What what is your education? Yeah, we're all residents were picked by the mayor. This. 00:08:47
Yeah, the mayor. I know been through that. So basically we have ordinances come come to us and we talk about different things such 00:08:55
as walls and stuff like that. And then we. Yeah. And then we give our suggestions to the City Council and they and they approve 00:09:02
them or they deny them even if we reject it, the City Council could still. 00:09:10
Approve it. So we have very little power here in the Planning Commission. 00:09:18
I understand. And I was directed tonight, today I've been on the phone a couple of times with a couple of people and I've been on 00:09:23
the the phone with a Dave Church who used to be the the lawyer here and he asked me what is Vineyard City doing about this? 00:09:35
Nothing. 00:09:48
So question for staff I. 00:09:50
So you're aware of the situation, it sounds like he was out there, so is the mayor, so were these two guys. So from like a 00:09:54
property issue standpoint, someones over there actual property line there, We don't have to have an ordinance for that. There's 00:10:00
there's legal recourse that way, correct already in place. 00:10:05
They're building because it doesn't. 00:10:13
An underwall that support it. They have a retaining wall and that only a building permit only kicks in at 4 feet. And so we had 00:10:17
our building official go out and measure it because that, that would provide us at least an application where we could request 00:10:25
information like, you know, a survey to make sure it's on it's within their their property line and it doesn't require a billing 00:10:32
permit. He determined that it's under 4 feet and so the city can't require 48 inches, right. 00:10:39
Mm-hmm. He's a 44 inches. He made sure I told you he, this man knows what he's doing. So at least from the building from the 00:10:46
standpoint we, we don't have a mechanism in, in that regard to require to go through a process. And and I, you know, and I, I, I 00:10:53
am sorry about about the situation. I mean it, it sounds like you you're going through some tough things with your neighbor on the 00:11:00
City side. We're only able to under our authority. 00:11:08
Granted us through the state. 00:11:15
Able to enforce our codes and so we and so we don't have something specific that they're doing because we can't determine from the 00:11:17
City side whether or not that retaining wall is on their property. It falls under, under what's called just a civil matter. And 00:11:25
that's where one property owner can hire legal counsel and then they they can they can work through the the legal system. That's 00:11:32
why we have the, the city isn't like we don't have anything within our core. 00:11:40
In our code that authorizes us to go on to make that type of determination, it's a civil issue between two properties. So I mean, 00:11:47
obviously not an ideal scenario that we don't want to have repeat. So from a staff standpoint, are there ordinances that we could 00:11:53
craft that would allow the city to better ensure that things like this don't continue to happen? I mean, if you want to do more 00:11:59
from a regulatory standpoint where we had some sort of we could put eyeballs like on a permit, you can require a permit for 00:12:05
fences. 00:12:11
I mean, you know, just just in general, because right now the only fence that offenses that require permits or anything over 8 00:12:18
feet or a retaining wall that's that's four feet or more. And so from a fence standpoint, like that's how we could that would 00:12:24
extend. I'm just thinking of ramifications of that any, yeah, any final fence going on. 00:12:31
What about a fence that's made out of or a retaining wall that's made out of cement or something so that it doesn't leak and start 00:12:38
a river down? Our engineering requirements for retaining walls, even sub 48 entities and even even water retention. By law people 00:12:46
are supposed to retain the water on their properties. So if water that's right. 00:12:53
Good job to your yard then. 00:13:01
Yeah, there's. It's also civil. 00:13:04
Did you? 00:13:08
No, OK. 00:13:09
All right, just to follow, just to follow up with that. And as soon as when it comes down to land development or any kind of 00:13:11
changes, I mean the essence on, on the retaining walls and so forth is not to change the flow of water from, you know, the flow of 00:13:18
water in terms of in terms of being able to shed water on that as well as any if the, if the individual and it's not isolated to, 00:13:26
you know, this municipality wouldn't be isolated to the state. 00:13:33
Across the nation in terms when it comes down to. 00:13:41
If a popular owner feels that they're being burdened by their neighbor from, you know, from shedding water, that that turns into a 00:13:46
civil matter as well. Actually, that's very, that's very common across the and that's how it's across the across the nation. 00:13:53
Yeah, I understand that, but there's got to be some city. 00:14:01
That in this state that has codes for fences and retaining walls, that Vineyard could get some type of an idea to be able to write 00:14:06
something similar. 00:14:12
That can protect people like me that used to live in the country and love it here. 00:14:20
Instead of them coming in and taking my country away. 00:14:26
Sherry, have you And I do apologize because? 00:14:32
We could go over that. 00:15:05
I mean, the point is, is that from the City side, we have looked into it and. 00:15:08
We don't have a code that way we can enforce. And so if you feel like, if you've done a survey of your property and you're able 00:15:13
to, to clearly show that that person has built on your land without your permission, then that's, that's a, that's a very 00:15:20
straightforward civil case. And I, I would recommend that you have your legal counsel contact them, showing them I already have 00:15:27
OK, then that's and had them sent a letter and they have until about somewhere around the 20th of August. 00:15:34
To respond and get it done properly. And you know, apparently they think that they've done it properly, telling a timber fence 00:15:42
that leaks and has mud flowing through it proper. 00:15:49
And like I said, he was pretty, pretty wise in in his tricks to make it 44 inches and not go over that. So he doesn't have to get 00:15:57
any engineering or footings or anything like that. And that's not right. Something needs to be done. And it seems like these are 00:16:06
the people where I need to start. They can do it. So right now, even if we were to approve something tonight, which we can't do. 00:16:15
And I understand that. So thank you. Thank you so much for your comments. It's something that we'll take into consideration for 00:16:24
future ordinances. 00:16:26
As far as retaining and things like that, just to respond to Morgan's response was saying that it has to go on the property line. 00:16:30
I did like when I was told today that. 00:16:40
This is I don't work for the county. I don't know what the county does the county recorder and I'm going. 00:16:45
Really, you don't know what the county recorder does. You guys can't get some kind of a map or something that says what the lines 00:16:53
are. I did it in 5 minutes calling the county recorder and got a copy of that map and I was going to send it to someone up here. 00:17:00
Yeah. So thank you so much for your comments. There's there's really nothing that we can do right now. And really it's only 00:17:07
supposed to be 3 minutes and it's been 15 minutes. Thank you. 00:17:15
So much I'm glad I was able to get out most of what I wanted to. It needed to be heard and it needed to be said and something 00:17:22
needs to be done. I hope you'll do that. Thank you for time. All right, thank you. And I'm really sorry that happened. That must 00:17:29
be really difficult for you and your family. Your husband and we will definitely take this into conversation later. There were 00:17:35
dairy farms here when we moved here. 00:17:42
So sorry, thank you for letting us know. 00:17:49
All right, so moving into minutes for review and approval 3.1, July 21st, 2021. Do I have a approval for those minutes? Yeah. So I 00:17:52
was here that night and I was able to review what we covered in that meeting and the the notes looked good to me. So I make a 00:18:00
motion that we approve those minutes from July 21st. Thank you. Anthony, do I have a second? I'll second All in favor, aye. All 00:18:07
right, moving into business item 4.1. 00:18:14
Zoning text amendment. Do I want to have you, do I move it into a public hearing now and then have you present it and then you can 00:18:22
open the public. That's what the council does. They open the public hearing at the very beginning in case people want to comment 00:18:29
on. But typically you would let Brian go through it. But if someone has a question. 00:18:36
To open the public hearing for business item 4.1 all right there a second second all in favor, aye All right so. 00:18:45
You taking this overtime? I believe Morgan's doing the first time and I'll do the the other two items and then you guys, if you 00:18:54
guys have any questions or something, just raise your hand and come up to the podium and. 00:18:59
Relax here so you can make some comments or ask some questions. 00:19:06
Are you on the? 00:19:12
Do you want to talk about those small amendments? 00:19:16
There's not a lot of them. Do you want to just go to the text and then zoom up? Okay, sure. 00:19:23
So this is the ordinance that Liz Hart, when she was employed as a senior planner here before she left, she was putting this 00:19:28
together. So we had a work session on this already. And what this does is the the the primary thing we can we can jump into that 00:19:33
I. 00:19:39
Or you can just take it through her. There's just a few of them. OK, So what this one is, is for the classification of a of a 00:19:46
monument sign for multi tenant. She had listed increasing the height for a multi tenant sign from 10 feet to 18 feet with the sign 00:19:53
standard waiver to allow it to go up to 20 feet. We felt like 18 feet was actually probably too high and this is more of just a 00:20:00
staffing. So if you want we could bump it back up to the 18 feet. 00:20:08
Them but. 00:20:16
State Street and I know arm is actually doing quite a bit to try and and reduce the amount of pole signs that they have on State 00:20:47
Street. So that that was kind of the overall theme is like, you know, 18 feet just seemed pretty high and then a two feet 00:20:54
difference to get up to 20 feet. So we dropped it down to the 15 feet and then. 00:21:01
What she had was the definition on the far right cell. You see it says from three to two tenants. 00:21:08
And so now the classification for a multi tenant sign would be just two tenants on the sign instead of set of three. So for 00:21:17
reference, like the the Alloy Maverick sign, yeah, that would be a multi. And how how tall is that one? Do you know? Did they get 00:21:22
all the way up to 20 feet, Brian? 00:21:27
I believe they went up to 18. 00:21:34
Yeah. So I mean, that's a pretty good reference though. Yeah, you had a couple to so, so we felt like that was so basically they'd 00:21:37
get the 15 as a permitted use and then they'd have to go through science and waiver if they wanted to get up to the 20 feet. 00:21:44
So any questions about that, that piece of it? 00:21:52
Keep rolling. All right, So this one, OK, this is the big one. As you know, we had the Golf Club that was chatting with us and 00:21:56
we're still, we're believe it, we're still in our conversation. You can't really say anything but but yeah, good, good things 00:22:03
happen happening. Hopefully we're able to see that come to fruition. But this amendment would be to allow a sign to be sized 00:22:09
according to the facade. 00:22:16
That is being represented in elevation. 00:22:23
So right now. 00:22:26
We have. 00:22:28
The overall cap of 60 feet Science Center waiver allows you to get up to is that 120 feet what you got visiting a lot of time? 00:22:31
Sorry my my Internet is not kicking on here so I can't pull it up. All right. So what this does is if you have a large facade, 00:22:38
your sign can then program and you can scale appropriately with that with that front side. I know we've been through a full work 00:22:45
session on us already, but it seemed like the Planning Commission felt like that that was. 00:22:52
You know, pretty appropriate because in the downtown that has kind of its own sign thing, but it also references this code, you're 00:23:00
going to get some really large buildings there. And so having signs that can, you know, that aren't so constrained. So if you have 00:23:05
a A-90. 00:23:11
Foot high building, which you're probably going to get around the downtown, you're going to get, you know, anywhere from 6 to 10 00:23:17
floors most likely, you know, having very limited sign area on each facade, it's going to, it's going to hurt 'cause you're going 00:23:22
to have a multi story, multi tenant. 00:23:27
And so being able to have people to appropriately kind of attach the signs where they want. And then also this provides a 00:23:32
secondary facade. So it allows for signs to be located around the building at 5%. You can then move around the signage. But as you 00:23:38
see kind of the bottom of the paragraph, you can't go about 15% on the front. So if you if you don't want and you say you have a 00:23:44
really great front with a lot of customer traffic, you probably want more signage there than you would on your side or your rear 00:23:50
that might be. 00:23:56
Facing you know, another building or something like that. So this allows. 00:24:02
Flexibility within a second, but provides that that overall percentage cap and then beyond signs are a prohibited sign. However, 00:24:09
we change that to be 6 square feet or higher is prohibited, but we wanted to provide people the ability to. 00:24:18
Or three square feet. There's three square feet, but it allows people to do like the open close signs. And also if they had 00:24:29
something small they wanted to put in a, in a, in a window of that that was lit neon wise to help kind of draw some eyeballs, We 00:24:33
thought that that'd be appropriate. 00:24:38
But still, 3 square feet, you're talking. Yeah, very fairly small, yeah. 00:24:43
Then there's just other section on the incidental science. Not over six square feet, so that's the same thing. 00:24:47
Do you have any questions about the I remember talking about this previously and it made sense if you had a big building with like 00:24:54
a tiny sign. Yeah, kind of weird, right, Right. So, yeah, I think it looks good. Yeah. We're recommending approval then. So I was 00:25:01
wondering, so there's the front and the secondary And what about like a can you have a sign on 1/3 wall or how does that work? 00:25:08
Yeah, yeah. So secondary basically how we're taking that to to mean is. 00:25:16
It's any of the other, any of your other facades are going to be a secondary. You could have 5% on each side. Yeah, yeah. And it 00:25:23
provides the ability to say, OK, and we can, we can then, you know, jump that up on the on the primary facade if we want to. So 00:25:31
you can take it off your rear throat on your front, but you can't, you can't go above 15 feet or 15% on the front. OK. So, so 00:25:38
there's still a cap. So potentially somebody could do 15 on the front and 10 on the back. Yeah. OK. 00:25:45
Because if they took that, they took the two sides and right over, you know, and that's, that's a good point. I mean, we could 00:25:54
kind of clarify that instead of saying secondary, maybe there's a different word that we could use. 00:26:00
That's not like. 00:26:06
Calling out like a. 00:26:08
I don't know like a chronology or, or like, you know, maybe it's like a. 00:26:11
I don't know like a non accessory? Well what's something that's not primary, not incidental accessory? 00:26:15
Additional additional additional facade Would that work 5% of the additional facade of the building? 00:26:25
OK, Well, if you're OK with that, you can recommend approval with us modifying the secondary facade language and then we can get 00:26:36
that to the City Council. Has this posed an issue up to this point? I know we really only have like that Home builders association 00:26:41
and. 00:26:45
I don't know if there's any other really. 00:26:51
Multi tenant, well, you'll find most, it seems like most people come in for a Science Center waiver and a lot of it is formed just 00:26:54
additional wall signs because they want to do more than the the front. The UCU building wanted 1/4 exterior elevation sign, wall 00:27:02
sign and then we we were going to ask them to go through a sign standard waiver. So with this they wouldn't have to be approved. 00:27:10
Are there any buildings now that we've approved signs where? 00:27:19
It's a small building where their sign was within our limits but would be too big for the 10%. Now is there anything that's? 00:27:24
Trying to think maybe? 00:27:34
Oh yeah. 00:27:38
The amount of control we have on fences and retaining walls is even less. 00:27:44
Yeah, we saw it and they will continue to just do whatever you view properties essentially. 00:27:50
They basically told us that there's not, there's not a whole lot city. 00:27:57
No. Well, all public schools, and that includes universities have. They have to, it's weird. They're supposed to abide by 00:28:02
dimensional standards like height setbacks and stuff like that, but they don't have to go through any review process. And what we 00:28:09
basically told is to not touch them, you know, stay away from that, so. 00:28:16
Yeah, there you go. 00:28:26
See. See, I'm just wondering. I'm just wondering if there's like a small building that now. 00:28:29
With the 10% or the 5%, their signs would be even smaller. Now I'm just wondering if that I don't know, I'm thinking of the the 00:28:33
ice cream shop. Yeah, brokers, but that's a project projecting sign and I can't remember how that I think they got a science 00:28:40
standard waiver, but I don't know if they're projecting sign, which is classified differently than a wall sign. I I can look into 00:28:46
that. I'm happy to. 00:28:52
Research that and see. 00:28:59
Yeah, it's just. 00:29:03
Just curious if we're limiting the smaller places now, but like if it drops it, yeah, if it's so if we need to do like a 60 square 00:29:04
feet or 15%, yeah, given maybe you can't, you can't go less than 6060 square feet or something like that. 00:29:11
Yeah, you know what I mean, Because you could you could write like a bottom caps Yeah, like if the the percent kicks in it like. 00:29:20
I I don't know. 00:29:28
I'm trying to think of some way we could just easily, like, combine the two. Well, yeah, I mean, you could have this language and 00:29:32
at the end just do another sentence that says in no case shall a business be required to have less than 60 square feet. And then 00:29:39
you provide a bottom cap form. You want to do that? Yeah, let's do that. That work for you, Brian? Cool. 00:29:46
And can you recap the other, what was the other amendment that we had chatted about? 00:29:55
Or was it the only one the additional? 00:30:01
To secondary is implying that it's just one. 00:30:08
Because then you go thirdly and fourthly. 00:30:12
OK, cool. 00:30:17
Were there any other changes on the sign? No, I was there. Yeah, those two. So 60 square feet, is that we're going with Shanabi 00:30:19
required to be less than 60 square feet something. Yeah, Yeah, in no case. 00:30:26
Wall sign be allowed. 00:30:34
Be required to be less than. 00:30:36
Yeah, so. 00:30:45
And then what was the other? 00:30:47
Provision it was changing the text language for secondary facade to additional facade. 00:30:49
Or additional facades make it plural. 00:31:03
Cool. Do I have a motion on that? 00:31:09
Well, first, any comments from the public, public hearing on this, on the signs. We'll, we'll get to the other too, yeah. 00:31:14
Yeah, this is just the signs right now. 00:31:22
Take care about these things you're passionate about. Square footage of science. 00:31:25
Yeah. So do I have a motion to close the public hearing for item 4.1? 00:31:40
I moved to close public hearing. Oh, you have a second, second all in favor, Aye, All right. Do I have a motion then? And then 00:31:46
this needs to be roll call since it's an ordinance and it's a recommendation, I move to recommend approval of these changes 00:31:54
including the verbiage change that. 00:32:01
Staff has taken note of. 00:32:09
I second that for ordinance 20/21/06. 00:32:15
All right, So this will be a roll call, Tay. 00:32:21
Anthony and me. 00:32:25
Right, OK, I'm moving into item 4.2 just to clarify that that was just a recommending of an approval to the City Council. So just 00:32:28
again, to show how the Planning Commission works, we're just saying we think this is a good idea. They can still do whatever they 00:32:34
want with it. They can not approve it. Okay, so item 4.2, this is the zoning text amendment for setbacks and location requirements 00:32:40
for swimming pools. 00:32:47
Do I have a motion to open a public hearing for item 4.2 I? 00:32:54
So move. All right. Do I have a second, second all in favor, Aye. And we do have an applicant. So I'd recommend allowing the 00:32:59
applicant to get up first and present and then Brian will have some, you know, he can provide some comments afterwards. 00:33:05
All right, just state your name. Wait. 00:33:13
I'm Johnny Christensen, 323 N there in James Bay, the white brick house. Yeah, I don't have a lot to say, but just my contract or 00:33:17
landscaper and pool guy. We are wanting to put our hot tub kind of adjacent to our foundation. They didn't really see anything 00:33:23
wrong with it, but just, yeah, open to what your guys feedback is and trying to get that amendment so we can get that hot tub in. 00:33:29
So cool, cool, cool. All right. 00:33:34
Is this Brian? Yeah. OK. Brian, do you have to? Did we open a public hearing already? OK, sorry. 00:33:43
OK, so here's the site plan for the. 00:33:55
For Mr. Christensen's home, this portion here is where the where the pool would be. 00:33:59
So right now the the the code treats pools as accessory buildings or structures and so it kind of governs them by the existing set 00:34:05
back requirements from the primary structure which is 6 feet. So accessory buildings have to be at a minimum 6 feet away from from 00:34:13
the primary structure and then from the rear and side property lines they have to be. 00:34:21
A minimum of three feet away, and that distance increases based on the height of the accessory building and such. 00:34:30
But so the applicant in order to have full enjoyment of this property and to they also discussed about this being able to improve 00:34:36
their overall health and happiness and things like that. This is something that they're proposing to the city. So what what the 00:34:43
text amendment is, is that swimming pools and spas would be considered part of the primary building if they are within 6 feet of 00:34:51
the primary building and as such they must. 00:34:58
Here to the building, to the building setbacks of the primary building. So it's treating them as though they were physical part of 00:35:06
the primary building itself. So you would still have to be within the building envelope and those setbacks. So they wouldn't be 00:35:13
allowed to encourage you into that area. But then the other set back requirements like the minimum 3 feet distance from the rear 00:35:20
and side would no longer apply. So this, this, this is one one way that they're proposing that would allow them to have a pool. 00:35:27
Closer to the house, you know that convenience of access. 00:35:35
OK. Is there a reason why it would have to have the same setbacks as the house? 00:35:38
I'm just wondering if there's a way, because I mean, it makes sense to be able to have it right next to your house. I'm just 00:35:43
wondering because some neighborhood setbacks are 15 feet or more than that. 00:35:50
I'm just wondering if there's a reason why they wouldn't be able to still be able to go up to three feet with the swimming pool. 00:35:58
Well, part of it is easements, but I think like we wouldn't allow them to build an an easement anyway. This is kind of a. 00:36:07
I categorically it's it's one of those things where it's definitely accessory to the primary use of the residents, but it didn't 00:36:17
necessarily fall under, you know, like a true accessory structure as it's, you know, most of them are sub training unless you have 00:36:23
like elements that are extended verb vertically and some people do or you have a pool house, obviously that would be a structure. 00:36:30
So, you know, as long as they're outside of the the easements. 00:36:36
We we kind of felt that that what's that the fire clearance, which is a minimum 5 feet right down the sides. 00:36:43
Yeah, sorry, Morgan. Yeah, I know. I don't know. Yeah. So if you if you've checked on that and that's that's great. So, so I mean, 00:36:52
my point is if you wanted to reduce like the side setback, as long as they're not in easements and they meet building and fire 00:36:58
code because they'd have to go through a billing permit process anyway. So they, you know, but the zoning I don't think 00:37:04
necessarily has to account for for all of those. 00:37:10
You know, we we typically check easements when they when they apply for a bill implement. 00:37:17
So do you think it would make sense to have pools kind of be their own thing? Because I'm just trying to think setbacks of 00:37:22
setbacks in James Bay for the rear of the property, is it 20 feet or 25 feet? I just pulled it up. I think it's 20. 00:37:31
In in 20 it's it's 20. 00:37:43
And so I'm just wondering, 20 feet is, I mean, you'd want your pool like a lot of people would want their pool kind of back in the 00:37:47
corner. Not all people, but some people would want to set it back and that would limit them pretty severely. 00:37:53
Correct me if I'm wrong, the same code still stands. This would add a provision for pools that want to be located less than six 00:38:01
feet, you know. But I mean, I don't think we necessarily have an issue though if you wanted to reduce the side setbacks. 00:38:10
You know, I mean, I, I just felt like, like this seemed to be if you're, if you're gonna be less than the six feet, then it would 00:38:19
fall under the, the primary building stepax just 'cause that's what we have. But if you wanted something crafted specifically to 00:38:25
allow it to be less than six feet plus have the benefit of a three foot set back, you know, we, we can do that as well. And what's 00:38:31
the proposed set back on this one? Is it the five feet? 00:38:37
On the side, I think it's 8 feet, Yeah, so. 00:38:44
Anytime we make recommendations for changes like for this specific one, like I would have no issue with this right? Like on 1/2 00:38:49
acre property there's it obviously works well. 00:38:54
I always think of like what's the implication of what it would do in my neighborhood with 10th acre lots, right? So like would it 00:38:59
change anything? So I'm just trying to think through what that would look like and if there would be any negative impact on other 00:39:05
things going forward and if there's a better way we could could write it. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm 00:39:12
just curious if you see any. 00:39:18
Yeah. And I, I think, I think you like Bryce kind of pointed out like like something that that we that we can look at and maybe it 00:39:24
was kind of an unintentional, but if there's not an impact. 00:39:29
You know, if they're going to be fire and building code from the zoning standpoint, we don't necessarily care it's their backyard 00:39:34
or even a side yards with their fence. I mean, that's our main thing is the safety aspect of it. Like I believe there's required 00:39:40
to be a fence, a self watching fence. So if you want we, we, I mean, I think the applicant is under the gun to, to get an 00:39:46
approval. And so, but we could bring this back as just like a, a text or a work session meeting in the future if you want us to, 00:39:51
to dig into it and research it. 00:39:57
I can't personally think of any effects from doing something like this and it seems fine. I'm just curious if anyone else is 00:40:04
thinking of like I'm smaller. Lots of this could potentially cause an issue but I don't I don't see any. 00:40:10
Yeah, I was thinking of. 00:40:17
You know, if you had a really small lot, I mean, but but then you're, you're kind of governed by the amount of your backyard that 00:40:19
you can use for an accessory use anyway. 00:40:24
So it might be self regulating if you cope on one of those backyards where you only have 15 feet or so. 00:40:31
You might not be able to, Yeah. There's not a lot of pools in the chamber now. I know, I take it. 00:40:37
I guess one if I may make a comment on that, Is there a way to ensure? 00:40:42
Safety for maybe someone falling out of a window and landing onto the pool or something like that? That would be pretty. 00:40:51
I wouldn't worry too much about that. I think having doors that that lock, I mean, I mean that that's going to fit kind of the 00:40:59
definition of the fence. 00:41:04
So if it's pressed up right against the point, it's hard to control every aspect. I mean, yeah. 00:41:10
If someone leaves a window open, a kid falls in. I mean, that's really unfortunate, but I don't know. Yeah. Like, it's hard to 00:41:16
make code that addresses every situation. I mean, about, like I said, we could research it if you want. I mean, there's a million 00:41:22
pools, swimming pool codes out there. So I think as it's written, just so we can get his building permit, I think this is just 00:41:28
fine. The only thing I would want to do in a work session is expand it so that it would make it easier to build it. 00:41:35
Into the into the setbacks in March. So to ease up on it more. 00:41:42
Right. 00:41:48
Are there any public comments on this? 00:41:51
There. Cool, cool. So yeah, I say. 00:41:54
Personally, I'd be in favor of doing that to approve this now and then you have a work session later as as written, no, no 00:42:00
amendments to it then, OK. 00:42:04
There's a motion. 00:42:10
Yeah. First, a motion that we close our public hearing. 00:42:12
All in favor, aye. And then I will also move to recommend approval of the proposed proposed zoning ordinance text amendment for 00:42:18
20/21/07. 00:42:23
Have a second. Another second. All in favor. I forgot the roll call. Oh yeah, Anthony, aye. And me aye. 00:42:29
All right, cool. Again, that'll go on to the council. So Yep. So next, next. Not approved yet? The first step is done next week. 00:42:37
So yeah, next, next Wednesday at the city personal meeting. 00:42:53
Cool. All right, moving on to item 4.3, this is. 00:42:59
For wall and fence heights. 00:43:06
Do I have a motion to open a public hearing? I move to open a public hearing second. 00:43:10
All in favor, aye? 00:43:16
All right. OK, Brent. So this one also treats the. 00:43:18
The zoning code 15 dot 38.030 parking requirements, although it was all done in one ordinance. So we'll, we'll, we'll first talk 00:43:23
about the retaining walls and fences and then we'll address the, the lights issue. So we, this is a continuation from the last 00:43:31
meeting. We had a discussion about this. We did find the need to add a few more items to the ordinance. 00:43:40
Um, just because they provide further clarification on things such as like terrorists retaining walls and how we should approach 00:43:49
those. 00:43:53
So yeah, I'll just I'll I'll dive into and explain so. 00:43:59
Just to make sure I'm understanding protocol, I have the you have to be on the record. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry that we 00:44:05
didn't give you an opportunity to to talk to you. Have you state your name and then the neighborhood or who you're representing? 00:44:09
Sure. 00:44:13
Hello, everyone. My name is Richie Stapler. Yeah, so neighborhood is James Bay. And sorry, I was just waiting for the opportunity, 00:44:19
but. 00:44:23
Yeah. So more specifically in James Bay, talking about wall height, looking to do an amendment there. And so as much as we love 00:44:28
our 6 foot wall height, there are situations where we actually need a wall higher than that, right. And so on that West side of 00:44:35
James Bay continuing actually along the fence line that these two gentlemen have. 00:44:41
For each, if you're to do at the continuation of the six foot wall height, that would be required to have a third tier, which is 00:44:50
more expensive and also cuts into your yard an additional 4 feet for every tier you add. And so the Long story short is we're 00:44:57
trying to opt for like an 8 foot wall instead of the six foot because that will allow us to do 2 tiers rather than three. So as a 00:45:04
homeowner to save money and also gives us more yard. 00:45:11
Yeah, Anything else? 00:45:21
No, that's it. Thank you. All right, awesome. Thank you so much. 00:45:22
Yeah. So this this ordinance does reflect that desire for an 8 foot fence. And and what we thought about with that is that areas 00:45:26
along the lakefront, not just James Bay, some of some of them have very substantial, you know slope increases or decreases, 00:45:33
however you look at it that might require for a higher wall. I don't know that many other places in the city would require a neat 00:45:41
foot wall. So we still anticipate that most retaining walls are going to. 00:45:48
Are just gonna need that 6 foot threshold, but this does provide for greater convenience for for the property owners to not have 00:45:55
to build up more tiers and obviously the burden of of of an increased price. So we took all that into consideration. 00:46:04
But I wanted to speak a little more to what the specifics of this ordinance are. So this ordinance provides a definition for what 00:46:14
a retaining wall is. 00:46:20
It outlines when a building permit would be triggered for a retaining wall, and that's at 4 feet in height, measured from the 00:46:26
bottom of the footing to the top of the wall. 00:46:32
It also outlines that retaining walls over 4 feet need to be designed and inspected by a certified engineer. Quick question, yeah, 00:46:39
with an 8 foot wall, is that from the bottom of the footing that that's going to be from? 00:46:47
From the finished grade to the to the highest point of the wall. 00:46:55
Yeah. The to clarify to, so there's kind of two measurements for the whether or not you need a building permit. That measurement 00:47:01
is taken from the bottom of the footing to the top of the retainer. 00:47:07
Thanks, Morgan. 00:47:16
So yeah, that 8 foot to the this code establishes that 8 foot maximum for any single retaining wall. It establishes that fences 00:47:19
and walls can be located on top of retaining walls. So you can have a fence, and I'll speak a little bit more to that here in a 00:47:26
second, establishes that the maximum combined exposed face of the wall. So of the entire thing, the routine wall and the fence 00:47:34
portion shall not exceed. 00:47:41
Feet in total and. 00:47:48
So it's 14 instead of 16. 00:47:54
So 8 and six yeah, insects, because our code states that any fence over six feet would require building permit. 00:48:00
But. 00:48:10
Yeah. 00:48:16
But when we wrote this code, we forgot to insert a caveat with this 14 foot. 00:48:18
Part of this so we wanted to add. 00:48:26
So we can actually write this several ways, but one way that we could write this is under no circumstances shall the fence portion 00:48:30
of the combined exposed face of the retaining wall exceed 6 feet in height measured from the top of the retaining wall to the top 00:48:35
of the fence. 00:48:40
So we just the reason why we're doing that is because if someone has like a four foot retaining wall that isn't going to give 00:48:46
them, we don't want to, we don't want them to allow to build a 10 foot fence over the routine wall, if that makes sense. Yeah, we 00:48:52
don't want to create a loophole for people to get instead of a six foot fetch. 00:48:58
You know, they have some slope to the yard, so they go, well, let's put in a retaining wall and then they end up with a, you know, 00:49:05
a 10 foot 10%, you know, so that's the. So yeah, we're trying to make sure there's not like a loophole like that people can 00:49:09
exploit. 00:49:13
The way that we could, well that's essentially what we want to do is make sure that that is inserted there in some some form of 00:49:24
way. 00:49:27
And then? 00:49:32
The highest .0. Sorry, I'm reading things that I already read. 00:49:36
Oh, OK, um. 00:49:44
So if a wall needs to be designed, a routine wall needs to be designed higher than 8 feet, then that's going to trigger a terrace 00:49:48
needing to be built. So you can't go over 8 feet retaining the wall. And so this code also establishes design standards for the 00:49:54
for the terraces, how they need to be built and what kind of materials, colors, they basically need to be consistent with the 00:50:00
underlying retaining wall so that that first wall that was built. 00:50:06
The second one needs to look and match either an existing retaining wall. They just wanted to be consistent. Essentially you don't 00:50:13
want mismatched looking walls in terms of materiality and things like that. And then we also outlined a distance requirement 00:50:20
between 1 terrace to another. And that distance requirement is half of the height of the previous wall. So if you have a retaining 00:50:28
wall that's 8 feet, then that that distance needs to be needs to be 4 feet. 00:50:35
OK, Yeah, that would all be engineered as well. Both the terraces and that retaining wall. Exactly, exactly. And all the wall, the 00:50:44
retaining wall, the landscaping that goes to the retaining wall, the drainage, all that stuff used to be maintained by the 00:50:50
property owner. So it's it wouldn't fall upon the city to to maintain anyone's wall and then. 00:50:57
What's that last? There's one more portion I haven't covered, sorry, and I just wanted to just to clarify my own question earlier. 00:51:05
It's been answered for me now, but a wall could if it has a bunch of tears. It could essentially be as high as a person wanted it 00:51:10
to be if it is tiered back. 00:51:15
The 14 feet was just the wall plus the fence. Yeah, I guess we don't outline a number of tiers on this. Yeah. So if it's a second 00:51:21
here and I don't, I don't think we we we need to. No, we don't need to. I was just before when I was thinking 14 feet. I was 00:51:26
thinking the like with tears. It could only be 14. 00:51:32
Yeah. So I mean how we would measure it is we would measure. So if there's two tiers, then we would measure the fence with the 00:51:39
second tier. OK. That's what the that was. Got it. 00:51:45
Yeah, yeah. 00:51:52
OK, was there one other thing you said? Oh, yeah, there is one thing and I was hoping Morgan could provide some clarification on 00:51:54
this. So we're retaining walls were wrecked. It's a This is what it says. We're retaining walls were erected as part of a 00:52:00
subdivision approval. The design and construction of any additional retaining walls shall first be submitted for review and 00:52:06
approval by the City based on plans and specifications certified by a certified structural engineer and erected using the colors 00:52:12
and materials as. 00:52:17
Prove for the subdivision. 00:52:24
Yeah. So that's, that's going to require overall pin consistency. And I don't think we're going to have many issues with that. But 00:52:27
it it first of all, it's going to, it's going to require basically you say for your subdivision, you do the entitlement work, you 00:52:32
do the master planning, you get the logs established, you build a retaining wall. 00:52:37
Adding more retaining walls triggers a new permit, but that retaining wall needs to be consistent with the retaining wall sort of 00:52:45
in place. So you know, you're not having every property with a completely different retaining wall, one that's maybe a straight 00:52:51
cement face next to something that's more block of rock. You do get a lot of like rockery retaining walls. 00:52:57
So we want to make sure there's some consistency there. 00:53:04
OK, thanks. 00:53:08
That's that's everything. 00:53:10
Cool. Did you guys have any other questions? 00:53:14
Just out of curiosity, like I know we talked about sign standard waivers. Is it there precedence for having like wall waivers too, 00:53:17
you know, like if you know 6 feet is the standard, but if you want to exceed that, yeah. I mean what we did prior I think, yeah, I 00:53:24
think Clay went through a bare variance. So we do have a variant. Variances are very difficult to get and with his, his case was 00:53:31
was unique. I don't believe the rest of his of the lots in James Bay would qualify for that. 00:53:38
Set up to be administrative. So they, they would go through a staff process, submit a billing permit with the engineering and then 00:54:16
we would do our analysis on a staff level and then they would be approved through the billing permit process. And we did, we did 00:54:22
put that caveat for the, their engineer would have to go back and provide us a report. So, so and, and we actually saw that in a 00:54:27
few different communities. 00:54:33
That did did that as well. So it's all right. Well, it sounds like we have provisions in place. So you he's got something stamped 00:54:41
from from their engineers. So they're taking liability there. There is an issue, OK. 00:54:45
Cool. Did you guys have any anything you guys wanted to add? Let's get to you guys. 00:54:51
Yeah, sorry. 00:54:57
Trying to keep it the same too, because ideally we kind of keep that just a really cool trail way for us to use. Yeah, no, it 00:55:31
looks gorgeous. Wow, it's awesome. 00:55:36
Cool. Thank you. All right. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I move to close public hearing. All in favor, Aye. All 00:55:41
right. Do I have a motion for this? 00:55:47
Sure. Just just to clarify, no one had any. 00:55:54
Tweaks your changes to this one. Brian, your language. 00:55:58
Your language wasn't in the public hearing notice they would have if they recommend approval with the amendment. So do you want to 00:56:02
pop your language out today? They could even just read it into the record. 00:56:07
Here and I'll just put it on the OR you can even state it in the record if you're OK with that Chair. 00:56:14
So here's the language that says under no circumstances shall the fence portion of the combined exposed face of the retaining wall 00:56:20
exceeds 6 feet in height, measured from the top of the retaining wall. 00:56:27
To the top of the fence. 00:56:34
All right. Well, based on that, I move to recommend approval of the proposed zoning ordinance text amendment ordinance 20/21/08 00:56:38
with the additional stipulations that Brian just read in that's 20210606. 00:56:45
All right, this will be a roll call. Take Anthony. Aye, me aye. All right. Cool. 00:56:55
So again, that'll go to the City Council for approval. 00:57:04
But next week. Yep. Correct. Cool. All right, So moving into 5.1 Planning Commission training opportunities. I did see your 00:57:08
e-mail. Yeah. I guess you want to start off and then I'll just jump in. Yeah, sure. Let me pull up this document real quick. We 00:57:15
were kind of hoping we'd have more people in attendance for for the Planning Commission so we could kind of gauge people's 00:57:23
interests. But we, we've identified a few training opportunities for the. 00:57:30
Commission that that we can find out if you guys are interested in in we can go on from there. So the first one would be the Utah 00:57:38
League of Cities and towns that have an annual conference and I believe that they have a specific day of planning day on September 00:57:44
30th. It's an all day event where they're going to have like walking tours and workshops and stuff like that. So if that's 00:57:51
something you guys are interested in. 00:57:57
We can work on, on getting the the costs approved and all that and just add to that. That's a really fun one. I've been to it 00:58:04
probably five times and it's they usually bring in some pretty killer projects and. 00:58:10
Their, their launch is great. And what we do is one of us from the city will go and snag a table and then everyone from the city 00:58:16
that's there. And there's usually a couple council members and, you know, probably seven or eight of us, but we'll also the same 00:58:23
table and it's just kind of a fun time to get together. But, and they always have a really good keynote speaker or, or even just 00:58:29
like a launch time speaker. I think we had Chuck Marrone was there two years ago. 00:58:35
And he talked about the like the fiscal sustainability of a city. 00:58:42
Based off of land use and that was really cool. So he was like comparing downtown's to do like a suburban shopping mall, the same 00:58:47
acreage. And then he he ran all the the numbers in a in the in the same city, so the same market. And anyway, it was really a kind 00:58:54
of a fascinating lunch. And so they're they usually bring in some like a heavy hitter. Like the keynote this year is I don't know 00:59:01
his name, but he's a cave rescuer, so I don't know. 00:59:08
Well, rescuer Cave. 00:59:16
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So it should be interesting. If you guys are interested, you can feel free to I guess e-mail me or contact 00:59:18
my schedule. I wanna go to that. OK, great. I will be out of town, so. 00:59:23
OK. 00:59:31
Yeah, a reminder e-mail with all those things. Yeah, Yeah, I can. I'll, I'll work on the drafting up an e-mail that lists all of 00:59:35
these trainings, give you a little bit more information on them. So the next one would be the training with the ombudsman, with 00:59:41
the state. This is one that we request and they'll actually come to Vineyard City. 00:59:47
This one's a lot more legal in depth, talking about land use and stuff like that. I haven't had this training. I don't know if 00:59:53
Morgan has any more details on it, but yeah, I, I did a while back. I think Bryce, you may have gone with his. Liz and I went and 00:59:59
then we had one or two commissioners that went and there were a few locations around, around like Utah where you could, you could 01:00:04
plug in. I think they, they may have this, this one is, is the one we request where they actually come physically here and they'll 01:00:10
talk about topics and. 01:00:15
Nassim just brought up a page that talked about boundary line disputes. 01:00:22
Today. So that actually kind of a cool one. Yeah, it would be a public meeting, so it would be open to whoever wanted to come. So 01:00:26
if you guys are interested in that, we can we can try to get something scheduled, but that one will just be here. And then what 01:00:32
was the 3rd? The third one is the APA Utah Annual Conference, and that is September 9th and the 10th. Where's that one located? 01:00:38
Did you get that? I don't know if they had a well, we can send an e-mail. Those are always fun. I don't know if you guys have gone 01:00:44
to the Utah EPA. 01:00:50
Try our goal is to have all planning commissioners go to at least one training something beyond the the attorney like open 01:00:56
meetings, the law training something is more like planning so you can develop some skill sets but. 01:01:03
To what you're interested in, that APA meeting is in Taylorsville, it looks like. 01:01:42
So, so yeah, if you do find anything you're interested in, you can e-mail me and I can get more details on it. 01:01:48
I just remember that we. 01:01:55
Didn't cover the light standards. Yeah, you're right. The light standards ordinance. 01:01:57
I think we have to, I think we have to open up another public meeting, I think public hearing, right. So if we skipped it on the 01:02:05
agenda, we can just go was that part of one of the other? It was part of one of the other ordinances, part of the last one there 01:02:10
were honestly. 01:02:15
Then I would just want to be if it's been recommended for approval. So. Yeah, but just to clarify then, So what we recommended for 01:02:22
approval was what was what was written here. And it it provided provisions for the city lights to fall into compliance, the 01:02:29
existing city lights to fall under compliance. Yeah, exactly. And they did fall into compliance with the based on the revisions to 01:02:35
this. Yeah. When we discussed it last night, we were all. 01:02:41
So, so this ordinance is going to govern only private lights on commercial lights on private property. So it really doesn't really 01:02:49
govern city lights at all, but perhaps has their own set of standards so that that they they manage. And So what we do here would 01:02:57
just be like parking lot private property pole lights. And so this this wouldn't affect anything that. 01:03:05
Yeah, I believe that in there. 01:03:17
And recommended that yeah. So the the height is 20 feet on, on private property, right. And and anything in the zoning code if you 01:03:20
have something in your street standards, the zoning code doesn't override St. standards. 01:03:26
Well, it would be a little different because in this case where you have you have a parking lot, a budding a, you know, house or 01:03:35
townhomes or streets. Yeah, if you, I mean those are close to, but you have a little bit more buffer. 01:03:43
Like, I don't know, I don't think it matters, honestly. Yeah. 01:03:52
Yeah, yeah. But so I think we're at 20 feet. 01:03:56
Just ensuring that we're following our own rules and we've clarified that it's not going to affect what public works are doing. 01:04:01
Yeah, OK. 01:04:09
That was that, yeah. So I mean, this is one of those things. Honestly, if someone complaints, then we would, we'd probably bring 01:04:11
it back for an official public hearing and cover it. But I think legally we're covered because it was noticed. It was in the staff 01:04:17
report. We did have a public hearing, but that wasn't a controversial part of the ordinance, so we didn't dive into it. 01:04:23
OK. And it's something we had a public hearing for previously and discussed? 01:04:31
OK. Anything else from the staff? 01:04:38
And Commission member reports. 01:04:41
Nope, none for me. Do we need another alternate commissioner? 01:04:45
Are we short one? 01:04:50
No, we have 3 alternates. I think we've looked today, we have 3 alternates of five regular. 01:04:53
Now we, yeah, I mean, I, I know people that have been busy lives, it just kind of sticks when it all kind of happens at the same 01:05:02
time. Luckily we have 3 of you. Yeah, thank you guys. Yeah. So we didn't run any issues because we'd have to renotice everything 01:05:09
if not, Yeah. OK, so I have a comment slash question. 01:05:16
For Chris about the roads, I talked to the road guy after the meeting from the City Council meeting and we talked about a vineyard 01:05:24
being a. 01:05:30
An active transportation community and. 01:05:37
How we can have asphalt that. 01:05:42
Kind of promotes that. And he was, I don't know if he talked to you about this yet, but apparently there's an option in the future 01:05:47
to use a smaller aggregate. 01:05:52
That, he said, would be less costly. It's more grippy and it's smoother, but it might not last quite as long as the bigger 01:05:58
aggregate stuff. 01:06:03
I'm just wondering if in the future we can consider that. 01:06:10
So I mean, we definitely can can look into that. There is a. 01:06:17
We do look at how often we want to treat the roads so that where layer is an important factor of how, what our intervals are. So 01:06:22
it's going to rough it, the cost savings won't be big enough. So if I for example, if I have to do this treatment that we did 01:06:29
based on how we're doing it right now, I can get maybe I can get eight to 10 years out of it. And if I use a smaller aggregate, I 01:06:37
may only get. 01:06:44
Years out of it and so with the cost is still going to be, you know for this project it's like a $300,000 project. So that's just 01:06:52
something we have to keep in mind is do we want to spend $300,000 every five years or do we want to spend $300,000 every 10 years? 01:07:01
So we just have to balance that. Now the other, the other factor in it is determining as we make our active transportation plans. 01:07:12
Where are the locations of those different active transportation uses? So you know, if if we're building trails is trails the 01:07:22
location for certain active transportation where we allow other active transportation on the streets. And you know, typically when 01:07:30
we're looking at a street we're looking at the heavier wear use which is vehicles. 01:07:39
And not that lighter weight active transportation. 01:07:49
So we just have to look at that as we're going through the our. 01:07:53
Our master plan for the active transportation and make those decisions because it comes with the cost with it. My recommendation 01:07:58
would be to. 01:08:03
Put the other activities, the lighter as you know, the lighter weight activities maybe with the smaller wheels and such that. 01:08:10
You know, would prefer a smoother surface on the trails and the sidewalks, concrete stuff where you can have that smoother surface 01:08:19
where you're not looking for. 01:08:24
The, you know, the wear layer and the traction and such, that would be my first recommendation, but that that's coming from, you 01:08:29
know, the engineering side of me and, and not necessarily the the end user. So we mean the actual transportation users. So 01:08:36
something to keep in mind as we go through, but it's, it comes down to a cost. 01:08:43
A big cost factor. Yeah, OK, cool. Thank you. Just to kind of piggyback off with Chris was talking about. 01:08:52
It's my understanding that the type of binder material that especially specifically that this vendor utilizes as. 01:08:59
It's got a very prolonged life on there. So I show the top surface of it. Again, like Chris was talking about, the aggregates on 01:09:08
itself is very important, especially when you talk about the friction and the structural integrity of the binder itself actually 01:09:16
will lead to, you know, that smoother surface type thing since you have less, I guess less gaps in your aggregates. 01:09:23
So yeah, we're just when I was talking to the guy, he was just saying that it would be significantly smoother with a smaller 01:09:31
aggregate. And I know that the aggregate helps in the where layer, but he was touting a lot about the HA5 being the real and aware 01:09:39
layer for them. But it is interesting talking to him but and then going off of that. 01:09:47
When we had our active transportation meeting, there was a guy from the state that said that there would be money. 01:09:56
Available from the state and I don't know if we've pursued this yet and asked my question is if we pursued this yet to convert the 01:10:02
sidewalk to a trail specifically on Center Street, that would be a Morgan question. Yeah, that's a Morgan question. 01:10:09
Was this during the? 01:10:17
Like our our steering committee meeting that we had. Maybe he was an older guy. How about Jim Price? 01:10:19
Yeah, I can ******* follow because I mean, with the new asphalt that's on, she told us that there's opportunities for quite a few 01:10:27
things that like upgrades or trail related. When we were talking about removing the sidewalk and putting a trail there, he's like, 01:10:33
we have something for that. Like he was specifically like we could do that is what we have this grant for. It's for stuff like 01:10:38
that. 01:10:43
Send him an e-mail. I'll see if I get some because I just bring that up just with the new asphalt. It's, it sucks to skateboard on 01:10:49
the sidewalk and the road. Yeah, so I'm in, I'm in Springville and we have a lot of there's quite a there's a small skate park, 01:10:55
but it's pretty active skating community. And a lot of them take 400 E where I live down, down to, to the skate park that's like 01:11:01
half a mile away. And they redid the road, but they didn't like it's very choppy and sharp and they didn't put like a smooth 01:11:07
surface on it. 01:11:13
And it infuriated a lot of people. And they haven't done anything to rectify it. I I don't imagine they will be. Yeah. There's a 01:11:20
trail upgrade. Money. I mean, that's, Yeah, a second. Yeah, sure. Also on the railroad track. I know that that was the old 01:11:27
Vineyard Rd. That could use some love and attention as well. Yeah. Sounds good. I'll get out if there's money. I'll get with Jim. 01:11:33
We have a lot of connections throughout the city. And then that, like Center St. 01:11:39
Onto main road just as only sidewalk, no trail. Got something for us. I was just going to say the old Vineyard Rd. The. 01:11:46
Struggle we have with. 01:11:55
Putting money into that is that we're hoping to see it go. It'll be rebuilt sooner than later. So it's hard to want to go and 01:11:57
throw half million dollars or rather than like resurfacing it, it'll actually completely. Yeah, we'll completely rebuild it with 01:12:04
the the the town as the Town Center develops, it goes up there. That's part of the plan is to rebuild that road with new cross, a 01:12:12
full cross section for the Town Center code and the plan. So that that's where we struggle to put any money into that. I mean. 01:12:19
It's a the road. 01:12:27
Is still a good Rd. it just has some. 01:12:29
Speed bumps. 01:12:33
Yeah, I don't really care about the bumps. It's just all the weeds grow up through and you get all like the goat heads and all 01:12:36
that. Okay, so you're looking more towards. 01:12:41
Landscaping and yeah, but in control of the vegetation, yeah, but like in the actual trail cracks. Yeah. So like I've even 01:12:48
wondered like could be locked as long as steel stuff that they do sometimes. Yeah. So that would be so that trail is is maintained 01:12:55
by the county. 01:13:03
Other one that runs along the railroad track right there. 01:13:11
Along the railroad. 01:13:14
The old Vineyard Rd. used to be right, so running right along the South of Yeah so. 01:13:20
So we were trying to get a, we were trying to get, we want to do a mill an overlay over that old section along Leche, not in 01:13:33
Bridgeport. But if there are weed control issues, we definitely want to get out there and spray them like those puncture weeds are 01:13:41
just an infestation here in Vineyard. And, and so if you notice areas and such like that, let us know and, and we'll get out there 01:13:48
and spray them. And I know especially like a school starting. 01:13:56
The new Trailside Elementary, like my kids have told me, I don't want to ride on it because I get a flat tire, but I'll 01:14:03
rollerblade or skateboard where I can get a flat tire. But that's kind of a shared sentiment, no? That's a great input. So I'll 01:14:09
let our parks guy know to get out there maybe. 01:14:15
I don't know if you can get out there this week, but maybe next week. Yeah, that'd be perfect. If you get somebody out there to 01:14:22
try and take care of some of that stuff before school starts. I think that's going to be like the main route that most kids take 01:14:28
to school. And then maybe the other thing I can do is I can have our sweeper run down that trail corridor as well and try and get 01:14:34
it cleaned up a little bit. And the construction they've done OK about like cleaning up as it's gone further north. 01:14:40
But now that the construction is essentially done all the way up to the school and even beyond, like, yeah, running, running this 01:14:47
week for up, I think it just, yeah, clean it all up and be ready to go. Yeah. And the other thing that I know, there's a small 01:14:52
section that still will probably get out there and just put a cold, do some kind of a cold patch or something. And there's a 01:14:57
little trench section that was cut across. 01:15:02
And then just as another note, because I know you, you live there and we'll show it on, but we're, we're looking at removing all 01:15:08
of the vegetation on that trail corridor and just having a drive. 01:15:15
Because it's just too hard to maintain. It's kind of out of sight, out of mind and it just it's. And then just to be more water 01:15:24
wise, it's another option. 01:15:29
Yeah. I mean, we can. We can put the water into the areas that are more. 01:15:36
Of a, you know, into our parks, that usable leave space, it's more used. Enjoy where you, you know, you're not just walking past 01:15:40
it, but you're hanging out in it and such. So we'll keep those areas green and then we'll, we're going to try and be more water 01:15:47
wise on these trails. Yeah, long term maintenance will be way lower on that too. Yeah, I know that my husband also likes to write 01:15:54
his bank and my kids and they just never take that drill because they come home with like every tire flat. 01:16:00
So that would be really nice. 01:16:08
Like that area? Yeah, I'll skateboard on it. Cool. All right. Thank you, guys. Do I have in motion to adjourn the meeting? Motion 01:16:11
to adjourn. I'll second that. All in favor, aye. 01:16:17
Thanks everybody. 01:16:27
Sorry about the beginning, United. 01:16:28
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This is the Vineyard Planning Commission. We'll get right into it. We'll have an opening. 00:00:02
By Anthony. I don't know what you want to do. OK, An opening prayer by Anthony. 00:00:09
Father in Heaven, we're grateful to be gathered here together and to discuss Vineyard City. 00:00:15
Please help us to. 00:00:22
Know what's best for the residents and for the city long term and that we can make wise decisions that are based on feedback from 00:00:25
the community and also from the competent staff that we have here. I say this name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. Thank you, 00:00:31
Anthony. All right. Moving to minutes of for review and approval. Cool thing about the minutes now is it's just recorded basically 00:00:38
so everything's in there so do I have. 00:00:44
Open session. 00:00:52
I think there's no concession. 00:00:54
Yes, sorry. So yeah, yeah, I guess we'll move into the open session. So for the open session, we have a couple of things on the 00:00:55
agenda today. If one of the things that you were wanting to make a comment about is in the agenda, we have a public hearing and 00:01:01
you'll have an opportunity to make a comment then I assume you guys are here for potentially the wall ordinance that's passing am 00:01:07
I are? 00:01:12
Well, OK, Whirlpool and moral support. So if you guys have other comments not retaining to the wall or the pool, you can make them 00:01:19
right now. If not, we're going to have a chance for you guys to make public comments when we move into that. 00:01:27
Cool. Did you have any public comments that you wanted? OK, just come up here to the podium. State your name and yeah, and your 00:01:35
neighborhood. 00:01:41
My name is Sherry Teschner. Is there something? Yeah, just make sure the lights on. 00:01:51
Can you hear me now? 00:01:56
Feel like a Verizon? Can you hear me now? 00:01:58
Anyway, my name is Sherry Tester, I live at 188 S Holdaway Rd. and I am one of the original people that lived here. 00:02:03
So I was on the Planning Commission myself, one of the original few from about. 00:02:14
Somewhere around 1995 to 2006. We have lived here 28 years. 00:02:23
We've lived very peaceably. 00:02:29
And enjoyed that piece on Holloway Rd. until Glade Holdaway. 00:02:33
Sold and subdivided his property. 00:02:39
And. 00:02:43
While we were gone on vacation. 00:02:49
Which we have rarely done. 00:02:52
One of our neighbors, the tomato, bows. 00:02:56
Have dug onto our property, dug up our fence line. 00:03:00
Offense broke the fence, broke the post. 00:03:06
And build. It proceeded to build. 00:03:11
Their retaining law. 00:03:15
And he said he wanted to put it there and he wanted to put it on the outside of the property line. It has been surveyed and 00:03:18
according to the law, which I don't know if you are aware of or no, I don't know if. 00:03:25
Professional planners or not, or if they have that these days. 00:03:34
It is against the law to do that. 00:03:42
To it was destruction of property. 00:03:46
And then he is encroaching. 00:03:50
On our property. 00:03:52
And it was. 00:03:55
By it is called boundary by acquiescence. 00:03:58
And that means our fence line was the property line and he has destroyed it. I do have pictures of it before and after. 00:04:03
He has seen it and he has seen it. 00:04:15
Morgan was out there when the very first. 00:04:19
Began And I guess that's the end of us taking vacations. I can't go anywhere because somebody is going to do something to our 00:04:22
property is not fair and it is not right. 00:04:28
And there's nothing, no satisfaction that I've been able to get out of this city or town. I'm not even sure what we are anymore. 00:04:36
We're a city now. 00:04:45
We used to be a town. 00:04:47
And because there aren't any ordinances. 00:04:50
That stop these people from doing this, destroying a fence line. 00:04:56
And he and. 00:05:02
His arrogance. 00:05:06
His piety. 00:05:07
And his bullying I don't appreciate. 00:05:09
And I don't think it's right that he gets away with it. 00:05:13
And the city continues to tell me there's nothing that they can do about it because there are no ordinances about fence lines. So 00:05:18
he put up. 00:05:23
Retaining wall which is made of. 00:05:28
Ray, what ties? Is that what they're called Timbers? 00:05:32
And those railroad ties have chunks missing out of them. 00:05:36
They are not level, they are not straight. 00:05:40
They when it rained the last few days, the water and the mud has gone down to the bottom and sometimes through the Timbers. 00:05:44
And going through. 00:05:55
And so it could make a river. Not only that, it could make that wall weak. 00:05:57
And it could make it very dangerous. 00:06:05
We talked to him and asked him to put. 00:06:08
And shove his because he is over a construction company. 00:06:11
Asked him if he could take his heavy equipment and push the wall back and push it back over a few inches. 00:06:18
So that he is not on top of our. 00:06:28
Our fence line anymore. 00:06:32
And. 00:06:35
He said yes, I can do that and he didn't. He made it look like he was doing that, but he didn't do it. And then he put in a metal 00:06:37
post to replace our wooden post. 00:06:43
That had barbed wire on him. 00:06:51
And. 00:06:53
He not only didn't put him back where they were or on where our wooden fence was, he put them several inches on our side of the 00:06:55
property line, thus destroying again the property line. 00:07:04
It is by and there are laws about this. 00:07:13
I. 00:07:19
Really do appreciate the comment with the meeting. 00:07:23
You're pushing it. 00:07:35
Yeah, and I'm telling you kindly, I'm about finished, but I think it's unfair what this city has done to me. 00:07:38
And we have been here. We've been good taxpayers for over 28 years. 00:07:48
Right. We're not putting your question that you've heard this several times. You guys have it. Yeah. So as far as the Planning 00:07:54
Commission goes, if there are ordinances, those are things that we can do as far as I. 00:08:01
Making a new ordinance. 00:08:10
As with a situation like this, the only thing we could be able to do, I guess would be to have different wall requirements as far 00:08:13
as materials and stuff like that. But encroaching on somebody'd property or even not holding the water on on their own property. 00:08:20
Those are there are legal things you can take as a Planning Commission. We don't have power to go out and and I'm sorry, I don't 00:08:28
I'm not aware of who you people are and I'm sorry. So can you tell me who you are where the Planning Commission we help. 00:08:35
Are you brought in from the community? Are you hired by? 00:08:44
The town, are you getting paid by the town? What what is your education? Yeah, we're all residents were picked by the mayor. This. 00:08:47
Yeah, the mayor. I know been through that. So basically we have ordinances come come to us and we talk about different things such 00:08:55
as walls and stuff like that. And then we. Yeah. And then we give our suggestions to the City Council and they and they approve 00:09:02
them or they deny them even if we reject it, the City Council could still. 00:09:10
Approve it. So we have very little power here in the Planning Commission. 00:09:18
I understand. And I was directed tonight, today I've been on the phone a couple of times with a couple of people and I've been on 00:09:23
the the phone with a Dave Church who used to be the the lawyer here and he asked me what is Vineyard City doing about this? 00:09:35
Nothing. 00:09:48
So question for staff I. 00:09:50
So you're aware of the situation, it sounds like he was out there, so is the mayor, so were these two guys. So from like a 00:09:54
property issue standpoint, someones over there actual property line there, We don't have to have an ordinance for that. There's 00:10:00
there's legal recourse that way, correct already in place. 00:10:05
They're building because it doesn't. 00:10:13
An underwall that support it. They have a retaining wall and that only a building permit only kicks in at 4 feet. And so we had 00:10:17
our building official go out and measure it because that, that would provide us at least an application where we could request 00:10:25
information like, you know, a survey to make sure it's on it's within their their property line and it doesn't require a billing 00:10:32
permit. He determined that it's under 4 feet and so the city can't require 48 inches, right. 00:10:39
Mm-hmm. He's a 44 inches. He made sure I told you he, this man knows what he's doing. So at least from the building from the 00:10:46
standpoint we, we don't have a mechanism in, in that regard to require to go through a process. And and I, you know, and I, I, I 00:10:53
am sorry about about the situation. I mean it, it sounds like you you're going through some tough things with your neighbor on the 00:11:00
City side. We're only able to under our authority. 00:11:08
Granted us through the state. 00:11:15
Able to enforce our codes and so we and so we don't have something specific that they're doing because we can't determine from the 00:11:17
City side whether or not that retaining wall is on their property. It falls under, under what's called just a civil matter. And 00:11:25
that's where one property owner can hire legal counsel and then they they can they can work through the the legal system. That's 00:11:32
why we have the, the city isn't like we don't have anything within our core. 00:11:40
In our code that authorizes us to go on to make that type of determination, it's a civil issue between two properties. So I mean, 00:11:47
obviously not an ideal scenario that we don't want to have repeat. So from a staff standpoint, are there ordinances that we could 00:11:53
craft that would allow the city to better ensure that things like this don't continue to happen? I mean, if you want to do more 00:11:59
from a regulatory standpoint where we had some sort of we could put eyeballs like on a permit, you can require a permit for 00:12:05
fences. 00:12:11
I mean, you know, just just in general, because right now the only fence that offenses that require permits or anything over 8 00:12:18
feet or a retaining wall that's that's four feet or more. And so from a fence standpoint, like that's how we could that would 00:12:24
extend. I'm just thinking of ramifications of that any, yeah, any final fence going on. 00:12:31
What about a fence that's made out of or a retaining wall that's made out of cement or something so that it doesn't leak and start 00:12:38
a river down? Our engineering requirements for retaining walls, even sub 48 entities and even even water retention. By law people 00:12:46
are supposed to retain the water on their properties. So if water that's right. 00:12:53
Good job to your yard then. 00:13:01
Yeah, there's. It's also civil. 00:13:04
Did you? 00:13:08
No, OK. 00:13:09
All right, just to follow, just to follow up with that. And as soon as when it comes down to land development or any kind of 00:13:11
changes, I mean the essence on, on the retaining walls and so forth is not to change the flow of water from, you know, the flow of 00:13:18
water in terms of in terms of being able to shed water on that as well as any if the, if the individual and it's not isolated to, 00:13:26
you know, this municipality wouldn't be isolated to the state. 00:13:33
Across the nation in terms when it comes down to. 00:13:41
If a popular owner feels that they're being burdened by their neighbor from, you know, from shedding water, that that turns into a 00:13:46
civil matter as well. Actually, that's very, that's very common across the and that's how it's across the across the nation. 00:13:53
Yeah, I understand that, but there's got to be some city. 00:14:01
That in this state that has codes for fences and retaining walls, that Vineyard could get some type of an idea to be able to write 00:14:06
something similar. 00:14:12
That can protect people like me that used to live in the country and love it here. 00:14:20
Instead of them coming in and taking my country away. 00:14:26
Sherry, have you And I do apologize because? 00:14:32
We could go over that. 00:15:05
I mean, the point is, is that from the City side, we have looked into it and. 00:15:08
We don't have a code that way we can enforce. And so if you feel like, if you've done a survey of your property and you're able 00:15:13
to, to clearly show that that person has built on your land without your permission, then that's, that's a, that's a very 00:15:20
straightforward civil case. And I, I would recommend that you have your legal counsel contact them, showing them I already have 00:15:27
OK, then that's and had them sent a letter and they have until about somewhere around the 20th of August. 00:15:34
To respond and get it done properly. And you know, apparently they think that they've done it properly, telling a timber fence 00:15:42
that leaks and has mud flowing through it proper. 00:15:49
And like I said, he was pretty, pretty wise in in his tricks to make it 44 inches and not go over that. So he doesn't have to get 00:15:57
any engineering or footings or anything like that. And that's not right. Something needs to be done. And it seems like these are 00:16:06
the people where I need to start. They can do it. So right now, even if we were to approve something tonight, which we can't do. 00:16:15
And I understand that. So thank you. Thank you so much for your comments. It's something that we'll take into consideration for 00:16:24
future ordinances. 00:16:26
As far as retaining and things like that, just to respond to Morgan's response was saying that it has to go on the property line. 00:16:30
I did like when I was told today that. 00:16:40
This is I don't work for the county. I don't know what the county does the county recorder and I'm going. 00:16:45
Really, you don't know what the county recorder does. You guys can't get some kind of a map or something that says what the lines 00:16:53
are. I did it in 5 minutes calling the county recorder and got a copy of that map and I was going to send it to someone up here. 00:17:00
Yeah. So thank you so much for your comments. There's there's really nothing that we can do right now. And really it's only 00:17:07
supposed to be 3 minutes and it's been 15 minutes. Thank you. 00:17:15
So much I'm glad I was able to get out most of what I wanted to. It needed to be heard and it needed to be said and something 00:17:22
needs to be done. I hope you'll do that. Thank you for time. All right, thank you. And I'm really sorry that happened. That must 00:17:29
be really difficult for you and your family. Your husband and we will definitely take this into conversation later. There were 00:17:35
dairy farms here when we moved here. 00:17:42
So sorry, thank you for letting us know. 00:17:49
All right, so moving into minutes for review and approval 3.1, July 21st, 2021. Do I have a approval for those minutes? Yeah. So I 00:17:52
was here that night and I was able to review what we covered in that meeting and the the notes looked good to me. So I make a 00:18:00
motion that we approve those minutes from July 21st. Thank you. Anthony, do I have a second? I'll second All in favor, aye. All 00:18:07
right, moving into business item 4.1. 00:18:14
Zoning text amendment. Do I want to have you, do I move it into a public hearing now and then have you present it and then you can 00:18:22
open the public. That's what the council does. They open the public hearing at the very beginning in case people want to comment 00:18:29
on. But typically you would let Brian go through it. But if someone has a question. 00:18:36
To open the public hearing for business item 4.1 all right there a second second all in favor, aye All right so. 00:18:45
You taking this overtime? I believe Morgan's doing the first time and I'll do the the other two items and then you guys, if you 00:18:54
guys have any questions or something, just raise your hand and come up to the podium and. 00:18:59
Relax here so you can make some comments or ask some questions. 00:19:06
Are you on the? 00:19:12
Do you want to talk about those small amendments? 00:19:16
There's not a lot of them. Do you want to just go to the text and then zoom up? Okay, sure. 00:19:23
So this is the ordinance that Liz Hart, when she was employed as a senior planner here before she left, she was putting this 00:19:28
together. So we had a work session on this already. And what this does is the the the primary thing we can we can jump into that 00:19:33
I. 00:19:39
Or you can just take it through her. There's just a few of them. OK, So what this one is, is for the classification of a of a 00:19:46
monument sign for multi tenant. She had listed increasing the height for a multi tenant sign from 10 feet to 18 feet with the sign 00:19:53
standard waiver to allow it to go up to 20 feet. We felt like 18 feet was actually probably too high and this is more of just a 00:20:00
staffing. So if you want we could bump it back up to the 18 feet. 00:20:08
Them but. 00:20:16
State Street and I know arm is actually doing quite a bit to try and and reduce the amount of pole signs that they have on State 00:20:47
Street. So that that was kind of the overall theme is like, you know, 18 feet just seemed pretty high and then a two feet 00:20:54
difference to get up to 20 feet. So we dropped it down to the 15 feet and then. 00:21:01
What she had was the definition on the far right cell. You see it says from three to two tenants. 00:21:08
And so now the classification for a multi tenant sign would be just two tenants on the sign instead of set of three. So for 00:21:17
reference, like the the Alloy Maverick sign, yeah, that would be a multi. And how how tall is that one? Do you know? Did they get 00:21:22
all the way up to 20 feet, Brian? 00:21:27
I believe they went up to 18. 00:21:34
Yeah. So I mean, that's a pretty good reference though. Yeah, you had a couple to so, so we felt like that was so basically they'd 00:21:37
get the 15 as a permitted use and then they'd have to go through science and waiver if they wanted to get up to the 20 feet. 00:21:44
So any questions about that, that piece of it? 00:21:52
Keep rolling. All right, So this one, OK, this is the big one. As you know, we had the Golf Club that was chatting with us and 00:21:56
we're still, we're believe it, we're still in our conversation. You can't really say anything but but yeah, good, good things 00:22:03
happen happening. Hopefully we're able to see that come to fruition. But this amendment would be to allow a sign to be sized 00:22:09
according to the facade. 00:22:16
That is being represented in elevation. 00:22:23
So right now. 00:22:26
We have. 00:22:28
The overall cap of 60 feet Science Center waiver allows you to get up to is that 120 feet what you got visiting a lot of time? 00:22:31
Sorry my my Internet is not kicking on here so I can't pull it up. All right. So what this does is if you have a large facade, 00:22:38
your sign can then program and you can scale appropriately with that with that front side. I know we've been through a full work 00:22:45
session on us already, but it seemed like the Planning Commission felt like that that was. 00:22:52
You know, pretty appropriate because in the downtown that has kind of its own sign thing, but it also references this code, you're 00:23:00
going to get some really large buildings there. And so having signs that can, you know, that aren't so constrained. So if you have 00:23:05
a A-90. 00:23:11
Foot high building, which you're probably going to get around the downtown, you're going to get, you know, anywhere from 6 to 10 00:23:17
floors most likely, you know, having very limited sign area on each facade, it's going to, it's going to hurt 'cause you're going 00:23:22
to have a multi story, multi tenant. 00:23:27
And so being able to have people to appropriately kind of attach the signs where they want. And then also this provides a 00:23:32
secondary facade. So it allows for signs to be located around the building at 5%. You can then move around the signage. But as you 00:23:38
see kind of the bottom of the paragraph, you can't go about 15% on the front. So if you if you don't want and you say you have a 00:23:44
really great front with a lot of customer traffic, you probably want more signage there than you would on your side or your rear 00:23:50
that might be. 00:23:56
Facing you know, another building or something like that. So this allows. 00:24:02
Flexibility within a second, but provides that that overall percentage cap and then beyond signs are a prohibited sign. However, 00:24:09
we change that to be 6 square feet or higher is prohibited, but we wanted to provide people the ability to. 00:24:18
Or three square feet. There's three square feet, but it allows people to do like the open close signs. And also if they had 00:24:29
something small they wanted to put in a, in a, in a window of that that was lit neon wise to help kind of draw some eyeballs, We 00:24:33
thought that that'd be appropriate. 00:24:38
But still, 3 square feet, you're talking. Yeah, very fairly small, yeah. 00:24:43
Then there's just other section on the incidental science. Not over six square feet, so that's the same thing. 00:24:47
Do you have any questions about the I remember talking about this previously and it made sense if you had a big building with like 00:24:54
a tiny sign. Yeah, kind of weird, right, Right. So, yeah, I think it looks good. Yeah. We're recommending approval then. So I was 00:25:01
wondering, so there's the front and the secondary And what about like a can you have a sign on 1/3 wall or how does that work? 00:25:08
Yeah, yeah. So secondary basically how we're taking that to to mean is. 00:25:16
It's any of the other, any of your other facades are going to be a secondary. You could have 5% on each side. Yeah, yeah. And it 00:25:23
provides the ability to say, OK, and we can, we can then, you know, jump that up on the on the primary facade if we want to. So 00:25:31
you can take it off your rear throat on your front, but you can't, you can't go above 15 feet or 15% on the front. OK. So, so 00:25:38
there's still a cap. So potentially somebody could do 15 on the front and 10 on the back. Yeah. OK. 00:25:45
Because if they took that, they took the two sides and right over, you know, and that's, that's a good point. I mean, we could 00:25:54
kind of clarify that instead of saying secondary, maybe there's a different word that we could use. 00:26:00
That's not like. 00:26:06
Calling out like a. 00:26:08
I don't know like a chronology or, or like, you know, maybe it's like a. 00:26:11
I don't know like a non accessory? Well what's something that's not primary, not incidental accessory? 00:26:15
Additional additional additional facade Would that work 5% of the additional facade of the building? 00:26:25
OK, Well, if you're OK with that, you can recommend approval with us modifying the secondary facade language and then we can get 00:26:36
that to the City Council. Has this posed an issue up to this point? I know we really only have like that Home builders association 00:26:41
and. 00:26:45
I don't know if there's any other really. 00:26:51
Multi tenant, well, you'll find most, it seems like most people come in for a Science Center waiver and a lot of it is formed just 00:26:54
additional wall signs because they want to do more than the the front. The UCU building wanted 1/4 exterior elevation sign, wall 00:27:02
sign and then we we were going to ask them to go through a sign standard waiver. So with this they wouldn't have to be approved. 00:27:10
Are there any buildings now that we've approved signs where? 00:27:19
It's a small building where their sign was within our limits but would be too big for the 10%. Now is there anything that's? 00:27:24
Trying to think maybe? 00:27:34
Oh yeah. 00:27:38
The amount of control we have on fences and retaining walls is even less. 00:27:44
Yeah, we saw it and they will continue to just do whatever you view properties essentially. 00:27:50
They basically told us that there's not, there's not a whole lot city. 00:27:57
No. Well, all public schools, and that includes universities have. They have to, it's weird. They're supposed to abide by 00:28:02
dimensional standards like height setbacks and stuff like that, but they don't have to go through any review process. And what we 00:28:09
basically told is to not touch them, you know, stay away from that, so. 00:28:16
Yeah, there you go. 00:28:26
See. See, I'm just wondering. I'm just wondering if there's like a small building that now. 00:28:29
With the 10% or the 5%, their signs would be even smaller. Now I'm just wondering if that I don't know, I'm thinking of the the 00:28:33
ice cream shop. Yeah, brokers, but that's a project projecting sign and I can't remember how that I think they got a science 00:28:40
standard waiver, but I don't know if they're projecting sign, which is classified differently than a wall sign. I I can look into 00:28:46
that. I'm happy to. 00:28:52
Research that and see. 00:28:59
Yeah, it's just. 00:29:03
Just curious if we're limiting the smaller places now, but like if it drops it, yeah, if it's so if we need to do like a 60 square 00:29:04
feet or 15%, yeah, given maybe you can't, you can't go less than 6060 square feet or something like that. 00:29:11
Yeah, you know what I mean, Because you could you could write like a bottom caps Yeah, like if the the percent kicks in it like. 00:29:20
I I don't know. 00:29:28
I'm trying to think of some way we could just easily, like, combine the two. Well, yeah, I mean, you could have this language and 00:29:32
at the end just do another sentence that says in no case shall a business be required to have less than 60 square feet. And then 00:29:39
you provide a bottom cap form. You want to do that? Yeah, let's do that. That work for you, Brian? Cool. 00:29:46
And can you recap the other, what was the other amendment that we had chatted about? 00:29:55
Or was it the only one the additional? 00:30:01
To secondary is implying that it's just one. 00:30:08
Because then you go thirdly and fourthly. 00:30:12
OK, cool. 00:30:17
Were there any other changes on the sign? No, I was there. Yeah, those two. So 60 square feet, is that we're going with Shanabi 00:30:19
required to be less than 60 square feet something. Yeah, Yeah, in no case. 00:30:26
Wall sign be allowed. 00:30:34
Be required to be less than. 00:30:36
Yeah, so. 00:30:45
And then what was the other? 00:30:47
Provision it was changing the text language for secondary facade to additional facade. 00:30:49
Or additional facades make it plural. 00:31:03
Cool. Do I have a motion on that? 00:31:09
Well, first, any comments from the public, public hearing on this, on the signs. We'll, we'll get to the other too, yeah. 00:31:14
Yeah, this is just the signs right now. 00:31:22
Take care about these things you're passionate about. Square footage of science. 00:31:25
Yeah. So do I have a motion to close the public hearing for item 4.1? 00:31:40
I moved to close public hearing. Oh, you have a second, second all in favor, Aye, All right. Do I have a motion then? And then 00:31:46
this needs to be roll call since it's an ordinance and it's a recommendation, I move to recommend approval of these changes 00:31:54
including the verbiage change that. 00:32:01
Staff has taken note of. 00:32:09
I second that for ordinance 20/21/06. 00:32:15
All right, So this will be a roll call, Tay. 00:32:21
Anthony and me. 00:32:25
Right, OK, I'm moving into item 4.2 just to clarify that that was just a recommending of an approval to the City Council. So just 00:32:28
again, to show how the Planning Commission works, we're just saying we think this is a good idea. They can still do whatever they 00:32:34
want with it. They can not approve it. Okay, so item 4.2, this is the zoning text amendment for setbacks and location requirements 00:32:40
for swimming pools. 00:32:47
Do I have a motion to open a public hearing for item 4.2 I? 00:32:54
So move. All right. Do I have a second, second all in favor, Aye. And we do have an applicant. So I'd recommend allowing the 00:32:59
applicant to get up first and present and then Brian will have some, you know, he can provide some comments afterwards. 00:33:05
All right, just state your name. Wait. 00:33:13
I'm Johnny Christensen, 323 N there in James Bay, the white brick house. Yeah, I don't have a lot to say, but just my contract or 00:33:17
landscaper and pool guy. We are wanting to put our hot tub kind of adjacent to our foundation. They didn't really see anything 00:33:23
wrong with it, but just, yeah, open to what your guys feedback is and trying to get that amendment so we can get that hot tub in. 00:33:29
So cool, cool, cool. All right. 00:33:34
Is this Brian? Yeah. OK. Brian, do you have to? Did we open a public hearing already? OK, sorry. 00:33:43
OK, so here's the site plan for the. 00:33:55
For Mr. Christensen's home, this portion here is where the where the pool would be. 00:33:59
So right now the the the code treats pools as accessory buildings or structures and so it kind of governs them by the existing set 00:34:05
back requirements from the primary structure which is 6 feet. So accessory buildings have to be at a minimum 6 feet away from from 00:34:13
the primary structure and then from the rear and side property lines they have to be. 00:34:21
A minimum of three feet away, and that distance increases based on the height of the accessory building and such. 00:34:30
But so the applicant in order to have full enjoyment of this property and to they also discussed about this being able to improve 00:34:36
their overall health and happiness and things like that. This is something that they're proposing to the city. So what what the 00:34:43
text amendment is, is that swimming pools and spas would be considered part of the primary building if they are within 6 feet of 00:34:51
the primary building and as such they must. 00:34:58
Here to the building, to the building setbacks of the primary building. So it's treating them as though they were physical part of 00:35:06
the primary building itself. So you would still have to be within the building envelope and those setbacks. So they wouldn't be 00:35:13
allowed to encourage you into that area. But then the other set back requirements like the minimum 3 feet distance from the rear 00:35:20
and side would no longer apply. So this, this, this is one one way that they're proposing that would allow them to have a pool. 00:35:27
Closer to the house, you know that convenience of access. 00:35:35
OK. Is there a reason why it would have to have the same setbacks as the house? 00:35:38
I'm just wondering if there's a way, because I mean, it makes sense to be able to have it right next to your house. I'm just 00:35:43
wondering because some neighborhood setbacks are 15 feet or more than that. 00:35:50
I'm just wondering if there's a reason why they wouldn't be able to still be able to go up to three feet with the swimming pool. 00:35:58
Well, part of it is easements, but I think like we wouldn't allow them to build an an easement anyway. This is kind of a. 00:36:07
I categorically it's it's one of those things where it's definitely accessory to the primary use of the residents, but it didn't 00:36:17
necessarily fall under, you know, like a true accessory structure as it's, you know, most of them are sub training unless you have 00:36:23
like elements that are extended verb vertically and some people do or you have a pool house, obviously that would be a structure. 00:36:30
So, you know, as long as they're outside of the the easements. 00:36:36
We we kind of felt that that what's that the fire clearance, which is a minimum 5 feet right down the sides. 00:36:43
Yeah, sorry, Morgan. Yeah, I know. I don't know. Yeah. So if you if you've checked on that and that's that's great. So, so I mean, 00:36:52
my point is if you wanted to reduce like the side setback, as long as they're not in easements and they meet building and fire 00:36:58
code because they'd have to go through a billing permit process anyway. So they, you know, but the zoning I don't think 00:37:04
necessarily has to account for for all of those. 00:37:10
You know, we we typically check easements when they when they apply for a bill implement. 00:37:17
So do you think it would make sense to have pools kind of be their own thing? Because I'm just trying to think setbacks of 00:37:22
setbacks in James Bay for the rear of the property, is it 20 feet or 25 feet? I just pulled it up. I think it's 20. 00:37:31
In in 20 it's it's 20. 00:37:43
And so I'm just wondering, 20 feet is, I mean, you'd want your pool like a lot of people would want their pool kind of back in the 00:37:47
corner. Not all people, but some people would want to set it back and that would limit them pretty severely. 00:37:53
Correct me if I'm wrong, the same code still stands. This would add a provision for pools that want to be located less than six 00:38:01
feet, you know. But I mean, I don't think we necessarily have an issue though if you wanted to reduce the side setbacks. 00:38:10
You know, I mean, I, I just felt like, like this seemed to be if you're, if you're gonna be less than the six feet, then it would 00:38:19
fall under the, the primary building stepax just 'cause that's what we have. But if you wanted something crafted specifically to 00:38:25
allow it to be less than six feet plus have the benefit of a three foot set back, you know, we, we can do that as well. And what's 00:38:31
the proposed set back on this one? Is it the five feet? 00:38:37
On the side, I think it's 8 feet, Yeah, so. 00:38:44
Anytime we make recommendations for changes like for this specific one, like I would have no issue with this right? Like on 1/2 00:38:49
acre property there's it obviously works well. 00:38:54
I always think of like what's the implication of what it would do in my neighborhood with 10th acre lots, right? So like would it 00:38:59
change anything? So I'm just trying to think through what that would look like and if there would be any negative impact on other 00:39:05
things going forward and if there's a better way we could could write it. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm 00:39:12
just curious if you see any. 00:39:18
Yeah. And I, I think, I think you like Bryce kind of pointed out like like something that that we that we can look at and maybe it 00:39:24
was kind of an unintentional, but if there's not an impact. 00:39:29
You know, if they're going to be fire and building code from the zoning standpoint, we don't necessarily care it's their backyard 00:39:34
or even a side yards with their fence. I mean, that's our main thing is the safety aspect of it. Like I believe there's required 00:39:40
to be a fence, a self watching fence. So if you want we, we, I mean, I think the applicant is under the gun to, to get an 00:39:46
approval. And so, but we could bring this back as just like a, a text or a work session meeting in the future if you want us to, 00:39:51
to dig into it and research it. 00:39:57
I can't personally think of any effects from doing something like this and it seems fine. I'm just curious if anyone else is 00:40:04
thinking of like I'm smaller. Lots of this could potentially cause an issue but I don't I don't see any. 00:40:10
Yeah, I was thinking of. 00:40:17
You know, if you had a really small lot, I mean, but but then you're, you're kind of governed by the amount of your backyard that 00:40:19
you can use for an accessory use anyway. 00:40:24
So it might be self regulating if you cope on one of those backyards where you only have 15 feet or so. 00:40:31
You might not be able to, Yeah. There's not a lot of pools in the chamber now. I know, I take it. 00:40:37
I guess one if I may make a comment on that, Is there a way to ensure? 00:40:42
Safety for maybe someone falling out of a window and landing onto the pool or something like that? That would be pretty. 00:40:51
I wouldn't worry too much about that. I think having doors that that lock, I mean, I mean that that's going to fit kind of the 00:40:59
definition of the fence. 00:41:04
So if it's pressed up right against the point, it's hard to control every aspect. I mean, yeah. 00:41:10
If someone leaves a window open, a kid falls in. I mean, that's really unfortunate, but I don't know. Yeah. Like, it's hard to 00:41:16
make code that addresses every situation. I mean, about, like I said, we could research it if you want. I mean, there's a million 00:41:22
pools, swimming pool codes out there. So I think as it's written, just so we can get his building permit, I think this is just 00:41:28
fine. The only thing I would want to do in a work session is expand it so that it would make it easier to build it. 00:41:35
Into the into the setbacks in March. So to ease up on it more. 00:41:42
Right. 00:41:48
Are there any public comments on this? 00:41:51
There. Cool, cool. So yeah, I say. 00:41:54
Personally, I'd be in favor of doing that to approve this now and then you have a work session later as as written, no, no 00:42:00
amendments to it then, OK. 00:42:04
There's a motion. 00:42:10
Yeah. First, a motion that we close our public hearing. 00:42:12
All in favor, aye. And then I will also move to recommend approval of the proposed proposed zoning ordinance text amendment for 00:42:18
20/21/07. 00:42:23
Have a second. Another second. All in favor. I forgot the roll call. Oh yeah, Anthony, aye. And me aye. 00:42:29
All right, cool. Again, that'll go on to the council. So Yep. So next, next. Not approved yet? The first step is done next week. 00:42:37
So yeah, next, next Wednesday at the city personal meeting. 00:42:53
Cool. All right, moving on to item 4.3, this is. 00:42:59
For wall and fence heights. 00:43:06
Do I have a motion to open a public hearing? I move to open a public hearing second. 00:43:10
All in favor, aye? 00:43:16
All right. OK, Brent. So this one also treats the. 00:43:18
The zoning code 15 dot 38.030 parking requirements, although it was all done in one ordinance. So we'll, we'll, we'll first talk 00:43:23
about the retaining walls and fences and then we'll address the, the lights issue. So we, this is a continuation from the last 00:43:31
meeting. We had a discussion about this. We did find the need to add a few more items to the ordinance. 00:43:40
Um, just because they provide further clarification on things such as like terrorists retaining walls and how we should approach 00:43:49
those. 00:43:53
So yeah, I'll just I'll I'll dive into and explain so. 00:43:59
Just to make sure I'm understanding protocol, I have the you have to be on the record. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry that we 00:44:05
didn't give you an opportunity to to talk to you. Have you state your name and then the neighborhood or who you're representing? 00:44:09
Sure. 00:44:13
Hello, everyone. My name is Richie Stapler. Yeah, so neighborhood is James Bay. And sorry, I was just waiting for the opportunity, 00:44:19
but. 00:44:23
Yeah. So more specifically in James Bay, talking about wall height, looking to do an amendment there. And so as much as we love 00:44:28
our 6 foot wall height, there are situations where we actually need a wall higher than that, right. And so on that West side of 00:44:35
James Bay continuing actually along the fence line that these two gentlemen have. 00:44:41
For each, if you're to do at the continuation of the six foot wall height, that would be required to have a third tier, which is 00:44:50
more expensive and also cuts into your yard an additional 4 feet for every tier you add. And so the Long story short is we're 00:44:57
trying to opt for like an 8 foot wall instead of the six foot because that will allow us to do 2 tiers rather than three. So as a 00:45:04
homeowner to save money and also gives us more yard. 00:45:11
Yeah, Anything else? 00:45:21
No, that's it. Thank you. All right, awesome. Thank you so much. 00:45:22
Yeah. So this this ordinance does reflect that desire for an 8 foot fence. And and what we thought about with that is that areas 00:45:26
along the lakefront, not just James Bay, some of some of them have very substantial, you know slope increases or decreases, 00:45:33
however you look at it that might require for a higher wall. I don't know that many other places in the city would require a neat 00:45:41
foot wall. So we still anticipate that most retaining walls are going to. 00:45:48
Are just gonna need that 6 foot threshold, but this does provide for greater convenience for for the property owners to not have 00:45:55
to build up more tiers and obviously the burden of of of an increased price. So we took all that into consideration. 00:46:04
But I wanted to speak a little more to what the specifics of this ordinance are. So this ordinance provides a definition for what 00:46:14
a retaining wall is. 00:46:20
It outlines when a building permit would be triggered for a retaining wall, and that's at 4 feet in height, measured from the 00:46:26
bottom of the footing to the top of the wall. 00:46:32
It also outlines that retaining walls over 4 feet need to be designed and inspected by a certified engineer. Quick question, yeah, 00:46:39
with an 8 foot wall, is that from the bottom of the footing that that's going to be from? 00:46:47
From the finished grade to the to the highest point of the wall. 00:46:55
Yeah. The to clarify to, so there's kind of two measurements for the whether or not you need a building permit. That measurement 00:47:01
is taken from the bottom of the footing to the top of the retainer. 00:47:07
Thanks, Morgan. 00:47:16
So yeah, that 8 foot to the this code establishes that 8 foot maximum for any single retaining wall. It establishes that fences 00:47:19
and walls can be located on top of retaining walls. So you can have a fence, and I'll speak a little bit more to that here in a 00:47:26
second, establishes that the maximum combined exposed face of the wall. So of the entire thing, the routine wall and the fence 00:47:34
portion shall not exceed. 00:47:41
Feet in total and. 00:47:48
So it's 14 instead of 16. 00:47:54
So 8 and six yeah, insects, because our code states that any fence over six feet would require building permit. 00:48:00
But. 00:48:10
Yeah. 00:48:16
But when we wrote this code, we forgot to insert a caveat with this 14 foot. 00:48:18
Part of this so we wanted to add. 00:48:26
So we can actually write this several ways, but one way that we could write this is under no circumstances shall the fence portion 00:48:30
of the combined exposed face of the retaining wall exceed 6 feet in height measured from the top of the retaining wall to the top 00:48:35
of the fence. 00:48:40
So we just the reason why we're doing that is because if someone has like a four foot retaining wall that isn't going to give 00:48:46
them, we don't want to, we don't want them to allow to build a 10 foot fence over the routine wall, if that makes sense. Yeah, we 00:48:52
don't want to create a loophole for people to get instead of a six foot fetch. 00:48:58
You know, they have some slope to the yard, so they go, well, let's put in a retaining wall and then they end up with a, you know, 00:49:05
a 10 foot 10%, you know, so that's the. So yeah, we're trying to make sure there's not like a loophole like that people can 00:49:09
exploit. 00:49:13
The way that we could, well that's essentially what we want to do is make sure that that is inserted there in some some form of 00:49:24
way. 00:49:27
And then? 00:49:32
The highest .0. Sorry, I'm reading things that I already read. 00:49:36
Oh, OK, um. 00:49:44
So if a wall needs to be designed, a routine wall needs to be designed higher than 8 feet, then that's going to trigger a terrace 00:49:48
needing to be built. So you can't go over 8 feet retaining the wall. And so this code also establishes design standards for the 00:49:54
for the terraces, how they need to be built and what kind of materials, colors, they basically need to be consistent with the 00:50:00
underlying retaining wall so that that first wall that was built. 00:50:06
The second one needs to look and match either an existing retaining wall. They just wanted to be consistent. Essentially you don't 00:50:13
want mismatched looking walls in terms of materiality and things like that. And then we also outlined a distance requirement 00:50:20
between 1 terrace to another. And that distance requirement is half of the height of the previous wall. So if you have a retaining 00:50:28
wall that's 8 feet, then that that distance needs to be needs to be 4 feet. 00:50:35
OK, Yeah, that would all be engineered as well. Both the terraces and that retaining wall. Exactly, exactly. And all the wall, the 00:50:44
retaining wall, the landscaping that goes to the retaining wall, the drainage, all that stuff used to be maintained by the 00:50:50
property owner. So it's it wouldn't fall upon the city to to maintain anyone's wall and then. 00:50:57
What's that last? There's one more portion I haven't covered, sorry, and I just wanted to just to clarify my own question earlier. 00:51:05
It's been answered for me now, but a wall could if it has a bunch of tears. It could essentially be as high as a person wanted it 00:51:10
to be if it is tiered back. 00:51:15
The 14 feet was just the wall plus the fence. Yeah, I guess we don't outline a number of tiers on this. Yeah. So if it's a second 00:51:21
here and I don't, I don't think we we we need to. No, we don't need to. I was just before when I was thinking 14 feet. I was 00:51:26
thinking the like with tears. It could only be 14. 00:51:32
Yeah. So I mean how we would measure it is we would measure. So if there's two tiers, then we would measure the fence with the 00:51:39
second tier. OK. That's what the that was. Got it. 00:51:45
Yeah, yeah. 00:51:52
OK, was there one other thing you said? Oh, yeah, there is one thing and I was hoping Morgan could provide some clarification on 00:51:54
this. So we're retaining walls were wrecked. It's a This is what it says. We're retaining walls were erected as part of a 00:52:00
subdivision approval. The design and construction of any additional retaining walls shall first be submitted for review and 00:52:06
approval by the City based on plans and specifications certified by a certified structural engineer and erected using the colors 00:52:12
and materials as. 00:52:17
Prove for the subdivision. 00:52:24
Yeah. So that's, that's going to require overall pin consistency. And I don't think we're going to have many issues with that. But 00:52:27
it it first of all, it's going to, it's going to require basically you say for your subdivision, you do the entitlement work, you 00:52:32
do the master planning, you get the logs established, you build a retaining wall. 00:52:37
Adding more retaining walls triggers a new permit, but that retaining wall needs to be consistent with the retaining wall sort of 00:52:45
in place. So you know, you're not having every property with a completely different retaining wall, one that's maybe a straight 00:52:51
cement face next to something that's more block of rock. You do get a lot of like rockery retaining walls. 00:52:57
So we want to make sure there's some consistency there. 00:53:04
OK, thanks. 00:53:08
That's that's everything. 00:53:10
Cool. Did you guys have any other questions? 00:53:14
Just out of curiosity, like I know we talked about sign standard waivers. Is it there precedence for having like wall waivers too, 00:53:17
you know, like if you know 6 feet is the standard, but if you want to exceed that, yeah. I mean what we did prior I think, yeah, I 00:53:24
think Clay went through a bare variance. So we do have a variant. Variances are very difficult to get and with his, his case was 00:53:31
was unique. I don't believe the rest of his of the lots in James Bay would qualify for that. 00:53:38
Set up to be administrative. So they, they would go through a staff process, submit a billing permit with the engineering and then 00:54:16
we would do our analysis on a staff level and then they would be approved through the billing permit process. And we did, we did 00:54:22
put that caveat for the, their engineer would have to go back and provide us a report. So, so and, and we actually saw that in a 00:54:27
few different communities. 00:54:33
That did did that as well. So it's all right. Well, it sounds like we have provisions in place. So you he's got something stamped 00:54:41
from from their engineers. So they're taking liability there. There is an issue, OK. 00:54:45
Cool. Did you guys have any anything you guys wanted to add? Let's get to you guys. 00:54:51
Yeah, sorry. 00:54:57
Trying to keep it the same too, because ideally we kind of keep that just a really cool trail way for us to use. Yeah, no, it 00:55:31
looks gorgeous. Wow, it's awesome. 00:55:36
Cool. Thank you. All right. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I move to close public hearing. All in favor, Aye. All 00:55:41
right. Do I have a motion for this? 00:55:47
Sure. Just just to clarify, no one had any. 00:55:54
Tweaks your changes to this one. Brian, your language. 00:55:58
Your language wasn't in the public hearing notice they would have if they recommend approval with the amendment. So do you want to 00:56:02
pop your language out today? They could even just read it into the record. 00:56:07
Here and I'll just put it on the OR you can even state it in the record if you're OK with that Chair. 00:56:14
So here's the language that says under no circumstances shall the fence portion of the combined exposed face of the retaining wall 00:56:20
exceeds 6 feet in height, measured from the top of the retaining wall. 00:56:27
To the top of the fence. 00:56:34
All right. Well, based on that, I move to recommend approval of the proposed zoning ordinance text amendment ordinance 20/21/08 00:56:38
with the additional stipulations that Brian just read in that's 20210606. 00:56:45
All right, this will be a roll call. Take Anthony. Aye, me aye. All right. Cool. 00:56:55
So again, that'll go to the City Council for approval. 00:57:04
But next week. Yep. Correct. Cool. All right, So moving into 5.1 Planning Commission training opportunities. I did see your 00:57:08
e-mail. Yeah. I guess you want to start off and then I'll just jump in. Yeah, sure. Let me pull up this document real quick. We 00:57:15
were kind of hoping we'd have more people in attendance for for the Planning Commission so we could kind of gauge people's 00:57:23
interests. But we, we've identified a few training opportunities for the. 00:57:30
Commission that that we can find out if you guys are interested in in we can go on from there. So the first one would be the Utah 00:57:38
League of Cities and towns that have an annual conference and I believe that they have a specific day of planning day on September 00:57:44
30th. It's an all day event where they're going to have like walking tours and workshops and stuff like that. So if that's 00:57:51
something you guys are interested in. 00:57:57
We can work on, on getting the the costs approved and all that and just add to that. That's a really fun one. I've been to it 00:58:04
probably five times and it's they usually bring in some pretty killer projects and. 00:58:10
Their, their launch is great. And what we do is one of us from the city will go and snag a table and then everyone from the city 00:58:16
that's there. And there's usually a couple council members and, you know, probably seven or eight of us, but we'll also the same 00:58:23
table and it's just kind of a fun time to get together. But, and they always have a really good keynote speaker or, or even just 00:58:29
like a launch time speaker. I think we had Chuck Marrone was there two years ago. 00:58:35
And he talked about the like the fiscal sustainability of a city. 00:58:42
Based off of land use and that was really cool. So he was like comparing downtown's to do like a suburban shopping mall, the same 00:58:47
acreage. And then he he ran all the the numbers in a in the in the same city, so the same market. And anyway, it was really a kind 00:58:54
of a fascinating lunch. And so they're they usually bring in some like a heavy hitter. Like the keynote this year is I don't know 00:59:01
his name, but he's a cave rescuer, so I don't know. 00:59:08
Well, rescuer Cave. 00:59:16
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So it should be interesting. If you guys are interested, you can feel free to I guess e-mail me or contact 00:59:18
my schedule. I wanna go to that. OK, great. I will be out of town, so. 00:59:23
OK. 00:59:31
Yeah, a reminder e-mail with all those things. Yeah, Yeah, I can. I'll, I'll work on the drafting up an e-mail that lists all of 00:59:35
these trainings, give you a little bit more information on them. So the next one would be the training with the ombudsman, with 00:59:41
the state. This is one that we request and they'll actually come to Vineyard City. 00:59:47
This one's a lot more legal in depth, talking about land use and stuff like that. I haven't had this training. I don't know if 00:59:53
Morgan has any more details on it, but yeah, I, I did a while back. I think Bryce, you may have gone with his. Liz and I went and 00:59:59
then we had one or two commissioners that went and there were a few locations around, around like Utah where you could, you could 01:00:04
plug in. I think they, they may have this, this one is, is the one we request where they actually come physically here and they'll 01:00:10
talk about topics and. 01:00:15
Nassim just brought up a page that talked about boundary line disputes. 01:00:22
Today. So that actually kind of a cool one. Yeah, it would be a public meeting, so it would be open to whoever wanted to come. So 01:00:26
if you guys are interested in that, we can we can try to get something scheduled, but that one will just be here. And then what 01:00:32
was the 3rd? The third one is the APA Utah Annual Conference, and that is September 9th and the 10th. Where's that one located? 01:00:38
Did you get that? I don't know if they had a well, we can send an e-mail. Those are always fun. I don't know if you guys have gone 01:00:44
to the Utah EPA. 01:00:50
Try our goal is to have all planning commissioners go to at least one training something beyond the the attorney like open 01:00:56
meetings, the law training something is more like planning so you can develop some skill sets but. 01:01:03
To what you're interested in, that APA meeting is in Taylorsville, it looks like. 01:01:42
So, so yeah, if you do find anything you're interested in, you can e-mail me and I can get more details on it. 01:01:48
I just remember that we. 01:01:55
Didn't cover the light standards. Yeah, you're right. The light standards ordinance. 01:01:57
I think we have to, I think we have to open up another public meeting, I think public hearing, right. So if we skipped it on the 01:02:05
agenda, we can just go was that part of one of the other? It was part of one of the other ordinances, part of the last one there 01:02:10
were honestly. 01:02:15
Then I would just want to be if it's been recommended for approval. So. Yeah, but just to clarify then, So what we recommended for 01:02:22
approval was what was what was written here. And it it provided provisions for the city lights to fall into compliance, the 01:02:29
existing city lights to fall under compliance. Yeah, exactly. And they did fall into compliance with the based on the revisions to 01:02:35
this. Yeah. When we discussed it last night, we were all. 01:02:41
So, so this ordinance is going to govern only private lights on commercial lights on private property. So it really doesn't really 01:02:49
govern city lights at all, but perhaps has their own set of standards so that that they they manage. And So what we do here would 01:02:57
just be like parking lot private property pole lights. And so this this wouldn't affect anything that. 01:03:05
Yeah, I believe that in there. 01:03:17
And recommended that yeah. So the the height is 20 feet on, on private property, right. And and anything in the zoning code if you 01:03:20
have something in your street standards, the zoning code doesn't override St. standards. 01:03:26
Well, it would be a little different because in this case where you have you have a parking lot, a budding a, you know, house or 01:03:35
townhomes or streets. Yeah, if you, I mean those are close to, but you have a little bit more buffer. 01:03:43
Like, I don't know, I don't think it matters, honestly. Yeah. 01:03:52
Yeah, yeah. But so I think we're at 20 feet. 01:03:56
Just ensuring that we're following our own rules and we've clarified that it's not going to affect what public works are doing. 01:04:01
Yeah, OK. 01:04:09
That was that, yeah. So I mean, this is one of those things. Honestly, if someone complaints, then we would, we'd probably bring 01:04:11
it back for an official public hearing and cover it. But I think legally we're covered because it was noticed. It was in the staff 01:04:17
report. We did have a public hearing, but that wasn't a controversial part of the ordinance, so we didn't dive into it. 01:04:23
OK. And it's something we had a public hearing for previously and discussed? 01:04:31
OK. Anything else from the staff? 01:04:38
And Commission member reports. 01:04:41
Nope, none for me. Do we need another alternate commissioner? 01:04:45
Are we short one? 01:04:50
No, we have 3 alternates. I think we've looked today, we have 3 alternates of five regular. 01:04:53
Now we, yeah, I mean, I, I know people that have been busy lives, it just kind of sticks when it all kind of happens at the same 01:05:02
time. Luckily we have 3 of you. Yeah, thank you guys. Yeah. So we didn't run any issues because we'd have to renotice everything 01:05:09
if not, Yeah. OK, so I have a comment slash question. 01:05:16
For Chris about the roads, I talked to the road guy after the meeting from the City Council meeting and we talked about a vineyard 01:05:24
being a. 01:05:30
An active transportation community and. 01:05:37
How we can have asphalt that. 01:05:42
Kind of promotes that. And he was, I don't know if he talked to you about this yet, but apparently there's an option in the future 01:05:47
to use a smaller aggregate. 01:05:52
That, he said, would be less costly. It's more grippy and it's smoother, but it might not last quite as long as the bigger 01:05:58
aggregate stuff. 01:06:03
I'm just wondering if in the future we can consider that. 01:06:10
So I mean, we definitely can can look into that. There is a. 01:06:17
We do look at how often we want to treat the roads so that where layer is an important factor of how, what our intervals are. So 01:06:22
it's going to rough it, the cost savings won't be big enough. So if I for example, if I have to do this treatment that we did 01:06:29
based on how we're doing it right now, I can get maybe I can get eight to 10 years out of it. And if I use a smaller aggregate, I 01:06:37
may only get. 01:06:44
Years out of it and so with the cost is still going to be, you know for this project it's like a $300,000 project. So that's just 01:06:52
something we have to keep in mind is do we want to spend $300,000 every five years or do we want to spend $300,000 every 10 years? 01:07:01
So we just have to balance that. Now the other, the other factor in it is determining as we make our active transportation plans. 01:07:12
Where are the locations of those different active transportation uses? So you know, if if we're building trails is trails the 01:07:22
location for certain active transportation where we allow other active transportation on the streets. And you know, typically when 01:07:30
we're looking at a street we're looking at the heavier wear use which is vehicles. 01:07:39
And not that lighter weight active transportation. 01:07:49
So we just have to look at that as we're going through the our. 01:07:53
Our master plan for the active transportation and make those decisions because it comes with the cost with it. My recommendation 01:07:58
would be to. 01:08:03
Put the other activities, the lighter as you know, the lighter weight activities maybe with the smaller wheels and such that. 01:08:10
You know, would prefer a smoother surface on the trails and the sidewalks, concrete stuff where you can have that smoother surface 01:08:19
where you're not looking for. 01:08:24
The, you know, the wear layer and the traction and such, that would be my first recommendation, but that that's coming from, you 01:08:29
know, the engineering side of me and, and not necessarily the the end user. So we mean the actual transportation users. So 01:08:36
something to keep in mind as we go through, but it's, it comes down to a cost. 01:08:43
A big cost factor. Yeah, OK, cool. Thank you. Just to kind of piggyback off with Chris was talking about. 01:08:52
It's my understanding that the type of binder material that especially specifically that this vendor utilizes as. 01:08:59
It's got a very prolonged life on there. So I show the top surface of it. Again, like Chris was talking about, the aggregates on 01:09:08
itself is very important, especially when you talk about the friction and the structural integrity of the binder itself actually 01:09:16
will lead to, you know, that smoother surface type thing since you have less, I guess less gaps in your aggregates. 01:09:23
So yeah, we're just when I was talking to the guy, he was just saying that it would be significantly smoother with a smaller 01:09:31
aggregate. And I know that the aggregate helps in the where layer, but he was touting a lot about the HA5 being the real and aware 01:09:39
layer for them. But it is interesting talking to him but and then going off of that. 01:09:47
When we had our active transportation meeting, there was a guy from the state that said that there would be money. 01:09:56
Available from the state and I don't know if we've pursued this yet and asked my question is if we pursued this yet to convert the 01:10:02
sidewalk to a trail specifically on Center Street, that would be a Morgan question. Yeah, that's a Morgan question. 01:10:09
Was this during the? 01:10:17
Like our our steering committee meeting that we had. Maybe he was an older guy. How about Jim Price? 01:10:19
Yeah, I can ******* follow because I mean, with the new asphalt that's on, she told us that there's opportunities for quite a few 01:10:27
things that like upgrades or trail related. When we were talking about removing the sidewalk and putting a trail there, he's like, 01:10:33
we have something for that. Like he was specifically like we could do that is what we have this grant for. It's for stuff like 01:10:38
that. 01:10:43
Send him an e-mail. I'll see if I get some because I just bring that up just with the new asphalt. It's, it sucks to skateboard on 01:10:49
the sidewalk and the road. Yeah, so I'm in, I'm in Springville and we have a lot of there's quite a there's a small skate park, 01:10:55
but it's pretty active skating community. And a lot of them take 400 E where I live down, down to, to the skate park that's like 01:11:01
half a mile away. And they redid the road, but they didn't like it's very choppy and sharp and they didn't put like a smooth 01:11:07
surface on it. 01:11:13
And it infuriated a lot of people. And they haven't done anything to rectify it. I I don't imagine they will be. Yeah. There's a 01:11:20
trail upgrade. Money. I mean, that's, Yeah, a second. Yeah, sure. Also on the railroad track. I know that that was the old 01:11:27
Vineyard Rd. That could use some love and attention as well. Yeah. Sounds good. I'll get out if there's money. I'll get with Jim. 01:11:33
We have a lot of connections throughout the city. And then that, like Center St. 01:11:39
Onto main road just as only sidewalk, no trail. Got something for us. I was just going to say the old Vineyard Rd. The. 01:11:46
Struggle we have with. 01:11:55
Putting money into that is that we're hoping to see it go. It'll be rebuilt sooner than later. So it's hard to want to go and 01:11:57
throw half million dollars or rather than like resurfacing it, it'll actually completely. Yeah, we'll completely rebuild it with 01:12:04
the the the town as the Town Center develops, it goes up there. That's part of the plan is to rebuild that road with new cross, a 01:12:12
full cross section for the Town Center code and the plan. So that that's where we struggle to put any money into that. I mean. 01:12:19
It's a the road. 01:12:27
Is still a good Rd. it just has some. 01:12:29
Speed bumps. 01:12:33
Yeah, I don't really care about the bumps. It's just all the weeds grow up through and you get all like the goat heads and all 01:12:36
that. Okay, so you're looking more towards. 01:12:41
Landscaping and yeah, but in control of the vegetation, yeah, but like in the actual trail cracks. Yeah. So like I've even 01:12:48
wondered like could be locked as long as steel stuff that they do sometimes. Yeah. So that would be so that trail is is maintained 01:12:55
by the county. 01:13:03
Other one that runs along the railroad track right there. 01:13:11
Along the railroad. 01:13:14
The old Vineyard Rd. used to be right, so running right along the South of Yeah so. 01:13:20
So we were trying to get a, we were trying to get, we want to do a mill an overlay over that old section along Leche, not in 01:13:33
Bridgeport. But if there are weed control issues, we definitely want to get out there and spray them like those puncture weeds are 01:13:41
just an infestation here in Vineyard. And, and so if you notice areas and such like that, let us know and, and we'll get out there 01:13:48
and spray them. And I know especially like a school starting. 01:13:56
The new Trailside Elementary, like my kids have told me, I don't want to ride on it because I get a flat tire, but I'll 01:14:03
rollerblade or skateboard where I can get a flat tire. But that's kind of a shared sentiment, no? That's a great input. So I'll 01:14:09
let our parks guy know to get out there maybe. 01:14:15
I don't know if you can get out there this week, but maybe next week. Yeah, that'd be perfect. If you get somebody out there to 01:14:22
try and take care of some of that stuff before school starts. I think that's going to be like the main route that most kids take 01:14:28
to school. And then maybe the other thing I can do is I can have our sweeper run down that trail corridor as well and try and get 01:14:34
it cleaned up a little bit. And the construction they've done OK about like cleaning up as it's gone further north. 01:14:40
But now that the construction is essentially done all the way up to the school and even beyond, like, yeah, running, running this 01:14:47
week for up, I think it just, yeah, clean it all up and be ready to go. Yeah. And the other thing that I know, there's a small 01:14:52
section that still will probably get out there and just put a cold, do some kind of a cold patch or something. And there's a 01:14:57
little trench section that was cut across. 01:15:02
And then just as another note, because I know you, you live there and we'll show it on, but we're, we're looking at removing all 01:15:08
of the vegetation on that trail corridor and just having a drive. 01:15:15
Because it's just too hard to maintain. It's kind of out of sight, out of mind and it just it's. And then just to be more water 01:15:24
wise, it's another option. 01:15:29
Yeah. I mean, we can. We can put the water into the areas that are more. 01:15:36
Of a, you know, into our parks, that usable leave space, it's more used. Enjoy where you, you know, you're not just walking past 01:15:40
it, but you're hanging out in it and such. So we'll keep those areas green and then we'll, we're going to try and be more water 01:15:47
wise on these trails. Yeah, long term maintenance will be way lower on that too. Yeah, I know that my husband also likes to write 01:15:54
his bank and my kids and they just never take that drill because they come home with like every tire flat. 01:16:00
So that would be really nice. 01:16:08
Like that area? Yeah, I'll skateboard on it. Cool. All right. Thank you, guys. Do I have in motion to adjourn the meeting? Motion 01:16:11
to adjourn. I'll second that. All in favor, aye. 01:16:17
Thanks everybody. 01:16:27
Sorry about the beginning, United. 01:16:28
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